50% extra damage taken is ridiculous and makes tanks easier to kill than dps sometimes. That number needs to be reduced or else every flag game is going to end in draw because tanks die too fast.
2 Likes
Im sick of MM hunters so absolutely, lets make tanks the only viable pvp specs. I got my backpaddling bear leveled n ready for the season! Its going to be great.
To my observation even DK tanks can hold pretty securely 4-5 dpses for a pretty long time even without a healer.
That doesnt mean we shouldnt make more tank specs viable for RBG. I would love that.
Another proposition would be to scrap tanks from PvP almost entirely, just to make them durable enough to hold a little longer than a normal spec, a little stronger than a druid in bear form as in terms of power- comparison, which most of the comunity would appreciate to a greater extend and BEAR with me now because heres my solution to the bigger scale problem:
Just make grabbing a flag pull out a new action bar that gives you tankish abilities, a few healing ones, a few utility ones and speed of course and buff your health and armor by %.
Just like grabbing a vehicle gives you a new bar to use only more complex and with far more abilities.
Would make ques faster, would solve the drama around class discrimination when coming to tanks and tanks wont have to be OP outside of RBG when it comes to PvP.
Thats for the flag maps, for defense and map control maps Id like to introduce you to the idea that whoever caps a flag gets 15% bonus health, 15% CC reduction and the player cooldowns refresh entirely, and after capping a base, everyone at the said base gets 15% baseline health absorbtion buff that lasts until expired.
1 Like
If 5 dpses can’t handle 1 tank without backup they just bad af, don’t need to invent whole new system based on this.
1 Like
thats not the reason i want this “whole system” invented because of this.
tanks are just generally cringe wagons in any other bracket besides Rated Bgs, thats the reason. this is the actual reason. and to compensate this system can take place.
because as for things are right now everyone from the community to the game devs struggle to find what unique traits should tanks possess to be able to bring to the different pvp scenarios and truth be told - nothing. most tanks bring nothing besides in rbgs and even in rbgs there many cases where you make the tank go dps unless hes a DK because then he can just spam chains of ice or spam grip the healers until he gets them out somehwere for a walk. which is ridiculous but i digress.
How come healers get to maintain their full pve power which is designed for raid bosses and nobody complains about it? Healers are tankier than actual tanks at this point in pvp. If tanks take 50% more damage healers should do 50% less healing in pvp.
true statement, indicated by the unsurmountable number of healers willing to heal currently
There’s something very wrong when healers are tankier than actual tanks and tanks can’t do their one job because dps want them to be a free kill.
Correct, and while we’re at it, lets just throw facts out the window
just make Tank specs the Supports specs for PvP…
wouldnt that be better? rather than an un-killable tank
- tanks skills could provide party buffs instead of reducing damage taken … as an example
“dps” dont want this. 99.999% of players want this. no one enjoyed playing into a tank and having to wait 2 minutes for the debuff to stack, then to gather 1 or both zerker buffs and then to chain 30 seconds of CC on healers while also cheating 10 seconds of stuns on the tank just to have a chance of killing them. old RBGs were a living nightmare because of tanks and are a large part of the reason why the bracket died shortly into its launch. tanks ruined the mode. tanks have always been awful to play with and against in pvp.
as a mostly healer player, i dont like playing with them either. im down a dps now, everyone just vibrates against each other doing zero damage. i shouldnt have to go and drink twice mid fight in the flag room just because tanks dragged the game to a crawl for 4 minutes straight.
remove tanks and all of a sudden people actually die. other guy wants them to be turned into supports, but that already happened with damage reductions, which is another reason they’re so awful. you can’t just cc and ignore them, no, they’ll give people shield wall or bubble or massive shields. when they aren’t doing that they have infinite CC. they are awful for the pvp side of the game and yeah sucks if you enjoy being the annoying guy with 4 bubbles and 7 grips, but the majority’s opinion is worth more than yours. find a new spec to ruin the game as, like MM hunter or ret pala.
2 Likes
I’m dying faster against casters as tank than on dps spec, this is absolutely ridiculous. Blizzard has gone nuts with tank nerfs.
yes, most mobs in dungeons do physical dmg. you’re supposed to be tanking 9 raptors in a dungeon, not 19 peoples gaming experience by queueing tank to bg.
4 Likes
i think the issue of tank is the unfairness how holding the flag debuff affect differently tanks
Let’s look quickly :
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Druid tank : massive health pool with mastery that increase max health, and increase healing taken , ideal to hold a amount of damage with a healer. Big bonus with the kitten stealth mode to travel half of the map.
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Brewmaster : Decline damage taken and depending on his critical strike increase the healing taken. can use transcendance to make ennemy run for a long times
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Demon hunter : very good mobility, good health pool and can heal himself more with more damage taken. also sigil silence fear very good to deny a group attacking
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Paladin : need to charge some attack before become tanky, unable to use his big defensive when holding a flag, mobility merely based on freedom and chance to block based on RNG. not forgetting WoG based on healing himself reduced a lot with flag debuff
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Warrior : Mobility good overall if assisted with target to charge and intervene and can reduce physical damage taken but the source of healing come only if he can attack something and very weak versus magic damage.
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Death Knight : mobility is low, good substain versus magic but way too dependant on Death strike healing and absorb to survive, a little stun and the DK tank dissapear from existence.
now after resumed this, we look the debuff on flag map that reduce healing taken on the flag that stack :
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Brewmaster : based on reduce damage so more damage taken can be denied it’s good to heal and depending of crit can “neglect” the flag debuff
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druid : good health pool and increase healing with mastery so neglect the effect of the flag debuff easier
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demon hunter : tank take more damage so when he heal he heal more and can handle a bit more the flag debuff, but the sigil that control ennemy team is very good to deny ennemy damage and his mobility help to avoid damage even more, so the flag stack debuff not very affecting
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Paladin : The total loser in the story , can’t even divine shield, queen , blessing on himself and his healing on him is reduced by the flag stack, and his defensive rely on blocking rng
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warrior : already with too few healing, the flag debuff act like a unpreventable doom on the war tank
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Death knight : the condition to heal require melee, a team full caster in front that stop the DK mobility is already fatale. The flag debuff reduc healing not only concern the healing of death strike but also the absorb of it.
Each tank class is not affected the same by the flag stacking debuff, wich create a a base the imbalance
Tank that can run and have increasing healing taken have way more avantage due they avoid taking damage and less affected by the stacks.
Imo the flag stack need more of a rework because it does not affect everyone the same.
there is many option to deal with the imbalance :
- flag stacking should reduce range, distance, movement speed and increase damage taken by 3% per stack
- the hotmogu orb stack systems, if there’s too much holding 1 shot are possible
- remove tank taking additionnal damage when holding the flag but let the healing reduction on
I bet there is more option available but the current stacking flag debuff affect massively certain tank like Paladin / Warrior / Death knight while tank like Druid and DH with mobility are less concerned ( even if still affected )
Blood DK is un playable by design for pvp
Elaborate on what you mean by “PvE power” ?
Healers cannot become less tanky or more tanky, this goes for dps as well, hense the problem with tanks in general. Tanks being less durable makes them useless, being of normal durability = people cry that they’re just a weak dps with the same durability and no utility for the team, them being overtuned = its just like an immortal target thats just there to annoy you and is boring to hit, barely any utility but its just there by the pure luck of bad design.
Before they got nerfed there were a many Blood Dks sitting in WPvP quest area and torment people by holding them for as long as 10s of minutes at one place unable to leave until they’re dead. Sometimes this would continue as the DK would move to the graveyard not letting them leave after respowning, unable to hearthstone or mount up. The other player had 0 power over the situation.
Again. Healers got their seat, a throne. They got where to sit, dps have their place as well, and for tanks there simply no roles, they’re highly situational.
For example Id make my dk play blood at Silvershard Mines when we snatching healers.
Even guardian druids and tank dhs dont play tanks in every game.
So honestly tanks should just exit PvP. They were never meant for this and it simply shows and buffing or nerfing them does very little. + waiting for stacks is just cringe.
They’re really particular to be adapted to PvP too, hense the many issues with them and even their identity in PvP.
My idea earlier is probably the best solution:
Nah. Tanks need removed. Tanks were made for PvE content.
They either do that, or make all their defensives into support abilities and normalize their HP. Which would never happen.
You ever heard of mortal strike… Dampening?!
I’ve killed tanks solo without any issue when playing feral, at least those I’ve come across.
Why do you think stawpicking 0.001 % of the conversation = making a point ?