SSC and TK are more compact and have fewer bosses than both MH and (especially) BT. What I’m asking you, is (even if you would one-shot the additional 8 bosses and the trash between), how would you have time to kill them during the “limited” raid time you have when you complained earlier about not having enough time to progress on Vashj/KT?
SSC in particular is NOT more compact than MH and, while BT is in fact longer, there’s also the very important fact that no boss in MH or BT is even remotely as hard as Kael or Vashj pre-nerf were. So, while I’ve seen my current guild doing 5-6+ attempts on one or the other boss and still failing to kill them for weeks before finally nailing them, I wouldn’t expect any of T6 bosses to require more than a handful tries once we actually reach them (aside from Mother if we still don’t have Shadow Res gear by then).
Truly, your stubborness in refusing to admit that Kael and Vashj really were on a different level compared to other bosses is a sight to behold. Either way, since you seem to be convinced that ppl who struggled on those bosses have next to no chance to progress relatively fast in T6, I don’t see any point to this discussion other than to check again in a few months and see who was the delusional one here.
You’re clearly not reading a single word Im writing. When I said my casual dad guild, playing 2 x 3 hours week, took Vashj and KT, you claimed the reason behind it was our 4 PUG’s in TK in the beginning of October. You claimed that was the reason we did good, those extra 4 days with randoms (where KT wasn’t even attempted), and that your guild didn’t do it and now fell behind.
When I asked you how you explained our Vashj kill mid October - after strictly 2 x 3 hours, you stopped replaying.
What Im asking you now is why you think you would have time - not to progress but to simply one shot everything next phase during your “limited” raid time - when you claimed that you hardly had time after 3 months to progress on KT/Vashj. Either you DID have time and were simply not cutting the slack, or you DIDN’T which is why Im asking how you plan on doing the next phase. What are you missing?
Kael and Vashj were on another level, but not a level a casual dad guild like mine couldnt progress on and clear within a reasonable amount of time. Meanwhile you called me out as “hardcore” and “no-lifer” since I was “one of thoose” who wanted “Mythic + difficulty”. My point was that they were well within reach of 95% of the guilds out there, so there was no reason to nerf. I said that taking a stand as a “casual”, since you in most of your posts labelled everybody that didnt want nerfs as “hardcore” and “no lifers”.
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Well, considering we did get both bosses down in their unnerfed state (Vashj on Nov 15th, Kael on Dec 13th), I do believe that we could’ve done them sooner if we had more time to spend on attempts - it’s not like our tactics or comp changed dramatically before the actual kills.
Still, considering just how insanely hard both were compared to the rest of the content, I also believe we will be able to clear both MH and BT in 2 days once we progress through them. Ofc I don’t expect to reach Illidan on day 1, but I also don’t expect any of MH or BT bosses to require 20+ attempts to get past them.
It’s more of a matter of actually reaching them in the first place, which can and will be done once most bosses become oneshots. If one can do the entirety of SSC and half TK (Al’ar and Void Reaver in one night), you ought to explain me how it’d be somehow impossible to do MH and the first couple bosses of BT on one day and the rest of BT the other day.
Well you’re the one who claims to be a “casual” or w/e. I don’t know what kind of experience the rest of your guild members have, or what level of skill they have. This is not to say that I believe that everyone who downed Kael and Vashj unnerfed was a “hardcore” - otherwise my current guild would be one too, and I for sure don’t believe it is.
That however does not mean that me or the rest of my guildies were not still tired of T5 content as it was. Even if we did down it unnerfed, nobody really minded having been able to do both TK and SSC yesterday. Maybe you enjoyed the challenge and were still enjoying it. I did enjoy it too before, but I was seriously burned out by the time nerfs actually came. So, even if the extent to which the content was nerfed DID surpass what I’d have considered my personal sweet spot, I still found the current state of affairs preferable to how it was before the nerf.
So, who do you think you (or anybody else) are for telling me I’m not allowed to be happy for the current state of T5 after I spent 3 months putting in the effort to progress through it, week after week, having even to switch guilds AND mains (with all the added effort of going through craftables/consumables multiple times) in the process?
So what did change? Perhaps the very thing I said would be “natural” nerfs - experience and gear. So why nerf them if everybody would have gotten them eventually doing just that. I don’t even have to ask you if you guys were happy, I bet you were, so why take that feeling away from other? Again I have to repeat - why should everybody clear everything before the next patch (when this wasn’t ever a thing in Vanilla/TBC)?
And for your guild - wouldnt it be fun to see if you could do it again, but more efficient? Really feel how much you have improved? You are free to have your opinion, but what you are advocating for is closer to Retail than TBC, which I find odd for a “old veteran”, agreeing with Blizzard to pretty much to sell out, lower quality and remove sence of reward to grab some extra dollars since eveybody for some reason should be able to walk through everything.
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So wait, I shouldn’t give my feedback that we’re happy with this change… because otherwise you or others would be sad? At what point, exactly, did I begin to care about you, specifically? My feedback is mine and mine alone, as with my guildies, you, and anybody else. It’s up to Blizzard to gather feedback collectively (however they gather it) and decide what to do with it.
But to go around telling off people who’re expressing how they feel about difficulty, telling them to “git gud instead” because they wouldn’t be fine with the difficulty change… that’s just pathetic.
What we find or don’t find fun is none of your business.
Except T5 content spent a lot more time in a state closer to its current than its pre-nerf state - which back then was just a temporary tuning to gatekeep guilds from T6 content that wasn’t yet ready at that time. So spare me the whole “Retail vs TBC” argument, because if anything, it’s Retail players who, coming from years of playing harder-difficulty modes, seem to be disappointed that old WoW really wasn’t THAT hard after all (except for temporary states of affairs that, even back then, lasted for less than a patch - like pre-nerf T5 or “unkillable” C’thun).
This isn’t “selling out”. This is simply following the history of TBC as it was. These nerfs did happen back then. Most people who played TBC back then experienced this version of TK/SSC, not the one we’ve been playing for the last 3 months.
If they had implemented nerfs beyond what existed in TBC, I’d have been complaining myself. As I did, for example, about the fact advisors in P3 currently don’t have the HP they have in P1 as they should (hopefully this is just an oversight and will be fixed soon). But besides that, the other nerfs simply replicate the ones that occurred between 2.1 and 2.4 back then, with many of these nerfs actually occurring in 2.1 and 2.2 (so less than halfway through old TBC’s lifespan). How you keep calling this a sellout is simply beyond me.
TK it’s boring, pls fix it!!! Worst than LFR.
We play TBC because there wasn’t LFR and now… those retail developer BANG! Mindless LFR everywhere
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Well, after some runs after the nerfs, I can tell that most people won’t need anything special from P2 after a few weeks in Hyjal/Black Temple, since %99 of the gear in P2 will easily be replaced with many other stronger items. The items I used to grind to get will be easily replaced with any item from P3. And neither of those will be a Huge-DPS-increase. So, I assume one reason P2 is nerfed that much could be for guilds to gear up new members/their alts much easier. People will farm their items in P3, and will LF a certain Class/Spec to add to their roster, or just bring an alt and gear them even faster. People might still grind some special items from P1 or P2 that will either never or very hardly replaced. Like DST from Gruul, the Wand from Maggy, Belt of One-hundred Deaths from Vashj (Which will not be replaced until P5, not even in P3). But nothing too special left in P2.
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If you do the count (on the bosses) you would see KT and Vashj where the only two bosses I was refering to in P2. Which I also believe people will continue to do atleast a little while longer, because (as you mentioned) some loot is still relevant and one can run straight to them now.
I wasn’t writing people will continue to make full clears of TK/SSC in P3. They wont, but there’s still a lot of bosses and trash in P3 that for some guilds will requiere time (which they in P2 claimed they didnt have).
Mate don’t even bother, based on skill there’s hardcore, casuals and there’s these people, the bad ones. Notice how I did not mention time? That’s because you can be hardcore while not playing for too long weekly, yet you cannot be hardcore if you do not have skill. You’re trying to reason with someone that is a very bad player at a very easy game. It’s like trying to explain colours to a blind man that follows the: “I gotta see it to believe it”.
If you want actual difficult and challenging raiding, go to Retail mythic.
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thats actually the only fun part since the nerfs.
Is Blizzard reading us?
First night and we already cleared MH and did up to Shade in 3 hours, and that’s despite 2 wipes on Archimonde and the attunements - without those we could’ve easily reached Teron as well. So, you know…
Its so sad when you people complain about NPC’s not being hard enough to kill. Its really so sad i dont know wether i wanna continue playing this game with you type of individuals inside of it.
You can’t win a single arena game but yet u wanna complain about content not being hard enough. You are slaves inside a dungeon doing it for a % drop chance of epics that is RNG. So your superiority in the game is decided by RNG drops. This is why the game is sht and will forever stay bad, you have to spend 4 months before you get a proper item that you can play with. Why do you want the content to take a longer time? So you can discuss your favourite beer while drinking on Discord like alcoholics?
nice one
i personally didnt see any difference to t5 
you ok? 
As real as i can be without being banned.
I guess the fact as many guilds cleared T6 content in less than a week as they did in T5 over three weeks means absolutely nothing to you?
It’s kind of fascinating how stubborn one can be, after having claimed that people who whine about pre-nerf T5 would still have trouble in T6, to see guilds comfortably progressing into and clearing T6 without breaking a sweat and having the gall to claim “Nah, it’s the same level of difficulty overall”.
At the very least, it could do you well to at least realize that your mocking prediction about people facing the same issues in T6 as in pre-nerf T5 was utterly wrong.
of course most bad guilds already disbanded last phase
it’s more fascinating to see how bad people can be to struggle in tbc content. the content is designed so that people with an intelligence comparable to that of koko the gorilla can clear it. however t5 required more motor skills in moving away from poison on vashj, the same kind of requirements are not present in t6
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