The best ever city for Night elves

From what I can read, your take on the Kaldorei is one where they’re not trying to be everything and having takes on every single thing that makes them the “I win” race.

The problem I have with Kalibas’ take is that he has this view that due to the Night Elves being the first, they should be something, beyond special yet phrasing it in a way where “it’s all in their lore.”

Making the night elves perfect in that way gives us nothing. They just become what the Humans are. Perfect…yet so damned boring. Blood Elves are in that similar position now. They are almost so perfect, but so boring and stale. I reckon, Druidism and Elune worship should remain the central focus of the new night elf city. Sentinels and Wardens involvement as well as something small for the remaining Shen’dralar.

Demon Hunters, Death Knights and Monks are all their own thing and won’t have any influence. Demon Hunters are Illidari and Blizzard won’t give night elf demon hunters anything special which overrides blood elf demon hunters. So, if the Illidari play a part for their respective races, then that means both the new night elf city and the updated Silvermoon will have Illidari sections. (Unlikely to happen, in all honesty.)

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I quite agree with that.

I don’t think they need Azsahra back. Not to reciporocate the level of of advancement they had reached… tha’ts the passed, and they built it… not her. She just dicatated. She was obsessed with seeking more power sources, she tasked the Shen’dralar to do her top projects 0- the wonders that amazed the people.

The people themselves like knoweldge and study, it is hown in the elves, leadership helps determine a few things

Sometimes it’s fun to read detail and discussion when you share a passion over something. This use to be the case decade ago, now, people prefer 1 liners and expect to get proper answers that can convince them or portray the complexities of certain issues.

I also like to talk about this, when I respond I am hoping anyone who wades in can get a decent grasp of why I have said what I have.

You did take the time to write your thoughts, and I assumed you appreciated a more in-depth response.

It appears I was wrong. I shall be concise with you hence forth.

We don’t even know what “sister” means - for such beings it is likely a metaphor - like the Winter Queen’s counterpart in the life i.e living realm where our characters come from as opposed to the death realm.

Sire Denathrius is her brother too - they certainly don’t have the same parents or any such thing. Or maybe they do. More is needed.

We just don’t know enough yet, we have to wait till they reveal more. It certainly doesn’t make much sense with the information we have.

Does the person who says this know the mind of the creator or the purpose he created the worlds for? know his hand or motivations for the things he does/did or can be certain why things are as they are?

Taking responsibility is indeed a virtue, even if made perfect, given a choice to choose to be imperfect well shall we blame the person who made us or the person who made a choice that would affect their descendants or the state of their world after such a choice.

But then some people would rather cast blame than take responsibility of their own lives and actions and do, make best of their situation no matter what it is.

They are special, and have been nerfed in wow versus their original prestnation in Wc3 and teh novels.

My problem with you is that your aversion is because you would not accept anyone but the blood elves being supreme at the things you love them for and refuse to accept that they are not - at least amongst the playable races or rather their night elven counterparts. I don’t have a problem with it. If the lore had made the blood elves supreme then that is what they would have been.

I think that’s nonsense, not htat it doesn’t have some truth to it. But that you need to be super flawed to be interesting is rubbish - it just means you’re not good at writing for that time of thing.

Read the Lord of the rings and the Wheel of Time - not the movies or tv show the actual books by the authors who spent decades working o n them, - see the level of detail you need to ahve in your world and your magic/power system to produce compelling heroes or races/factions that can be quite powerful yet aren’t infallible nor invulnerable.

It can be done.

Demon hunters, like druids and like Elune priests are a night elf thing, first created by night elves - these 3 unlike the mage class also created by night elves, are directly taught to other races by night elves, so they have the night elf version of such classes. (at least it was for druids until we met Drust and zandalari druids).

Nothing wrong with these, most classes have their institutions anyway, there is no class that is exclusive to one race, however most classes have an origin from a race or are baed primarily on the version practised by that race.

e.g the mage class originated from the night elves, but the version the class uses is the human version. In the lore this developed from the high elf version which in turn comes from the remnants of the far more powerful night elf version - the history shows how it got to that state and why too.

the hunter class however - is a combination of styles from different groups - it has elven ranger/marksmen, dwarven survival mountaineers, orc beast mastery, tauren/troll spear hunters all mixed together.

Blizzard had stated in an interview that the warrior class was an almagmation of the Mountain King, Berserker/barbarian, Blademaster etc and that was their initial approach to many of the classes.

Remember for the priest class, they took the human holy light priest version, but added a shadow dark priest version too. The dwarven faith, the night elf faith, the troll loa faith none of these were specifically represented choosing instead to give 1 unique ability that was specific faith based instead of base the class on that.

Their Druids, Priests and W3 representation was special and unique.

That is the version I’d rather see.

On the 18th, I don’t want World “of how amazing the Night Elves are. Play a night elf or fall asleep” craft. I want racial pride. Yes, that means we see the core elements of the races being truly shown. For Night Elves, it will be Druids and Priests, then followed on by Hunters and Demon Hunters. For Blood Elves, it will be Mages, Paladins and Hunters, then followed by Demon Hunters.

I am critical of the current writing team, but the fact is - they aren’t writing the night elves as being amazion perfects. They are just night elves, who are now seemingly based in Northern Kalimdor. We got nothing about Alliance presence in Feralas and the only night elf presence in Dire Maul is that of screaming ghosts and banshees.

Just like Blood Elves are just blood elves, based in Northern Eastern Kingdoms.

What you think and what is happening, are two very different things. The Blood Elf fanbase is huge agreement that the race has become boring, because it’s become too perfect.

Feel free to check my thread, addressing the issue:
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-blood-elves-and-their-future/337026/1

But it didn’t, because we’re ignoring races like the Draenei / Eredar, who have been wielding the arcane for 5 times longer than Azshara’s Empire.

The Ethereals are another example. The Mage class is not associated with night elves…blizzard have gone in a different direction and you just have to accept that the game is not those three books from the early 2000’s.

You just have to get over night elf mages. You can see from another night elf fan that he doesn’t share you views on what the elves should be. What I find is that your hypocritical because you likely think that Tharandrel is secretly some sort of blood elf fan because you, little Kalibas…you are the ultimate night elf fan and if anyone says “no” to your ideas, then they’re just horrible blood elf / horde fans.

the mage class originated with the night elves. What the Eredar did on Argus is not what constitutes the mage class we play. It could be mage related, and they would have versions of it, but it would not be the same and could be something different, yet similar… we just don’t know.

What became the mage class we play, starts with the elves, the knowledge is passed to humans, and the mage we play is based on the human mage, not an Eredar one, and it’s origin goes back to the original elves, the kaldorei.

No, because I don’t think your understanding how the mage class works.

It’s like trying to say that the Death Knight class and Warlock relates back to the Orcs or how the Paladin class relates back to the Draenei.
It doesn’t work like that.

The Mage class is most amplified when we see Humans, Nightborne and Blood Elves. Each have taken a different route and mastered it, far beyond the basic night elf. After, it goes to Draenei and Void Elves, who both have their own versions.

I mean, we even know that the night elf mages are now nowhere near as strong as whatever they had under Azshara. The proof is that Estulan has failed in restoring Dire Maul…seemingly Feralas no longer has a strong Alliance presence and Dire Maul still belongs to the Ogres.

EDIT: And I’ve just seen the updated Shen’dralar lore. They didn’t create any wonders (aside from Eldre’Thalas.) They were revered for, and I quote:
The Shen’dralar were Queen Azshara most revered arcanists charged with the storage and safekeeping of her most precious tomes

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shen%27dralar

So, as I’ve been saying - they were Mage-Librarians. Nothing more, nothing less.

Before Night Elves get a city how about the trolls, the goblins and the gnomes get one? I mean they are waiting way longer for a city than Night Elves.

As said before, I wish the Night Elves could reclaim the ruins of Dire Maul and make a new home in the luxuriant forests of Feralas.

But realistically speaking, I guess it is more likely that Elune or the Winter Queen become involved in some sort of regrowth of Teldrassil.

Or, maybe, dragons could help do that in 10.0? :wink:

I would have loved it, but seemingly - as far as the recent lore information, the Highborne under Estulan have seemingly all but given up on trying to reclaim their city.

The only night elf presence within Dire Maul are those of the wailing shen’dralar ghosts.

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To put a lore aspect into this. Aren’t night elves close to extinction and you could fit the majority of them into one house?
And as the story in Suramar progressed you could hear quite often talking blood elves and nightborne talking about “Those throwback, tree hugging, kaldorei filthstrong text
So, maybe a tree would be enough, with 5-10 huts attached to it.

I am assuming what you’re saying here is a hyperbole. The genocide severely impacted the Kaldorei’s numbers but it’s not like they do not reproduce. The Kaldorei might be more busy with reproducing nowadays than they were before, to ensure their survival. It only makes sense, realistically speaking. We as Humans would’ve definitely done the same thing if our existence was threatened.

Trolls getting a city. I don’t think the Trolls care that much about cities. They are more like nomads. The Zandalari is an exception but that is because they are still an empire. The Darkspear Trolls have lived everywhere, scattered across the world in smaller villages and on islands.

But if you really want a city for Trolls… they already have a city. It is called Dazar’alor. Seems you forgot about that one :stuck_out_tongue:

The heritage armor questline for Gnomes hints at them trying to retake gnomeragan I think. If not, the Gnomes anyway have a city. They practically live with the Dwarves in towns and Ironforge. I do not feel like the Gnomes have such an integral part in the overarching story that they should be prioritized over othe races, anyway. The Kaldorei is like a signature race in WoW that’s been with us ever since WC3. They’ve been involved in almost everything.

The Kaldorei has been treated so badly by recent lore that they deserve some freaking peace. Give them a city back, allow them to prosper, allow them to become a great people again. Crossing paths with the Kaldorei in WC3 usually meant certain death. They should become dangerous and a force to be reckoned with, like they were before.

Then Blizz writers can focus on other races, like the Gnomes. Though, I have to say, I feel like Gnomes got a lot of attention in BfA, with Mechagon and the introduction of Mechagnomes. It’s not like they lack attention from the writers.

Blizzard already said that Night Elves are close to extinction and they can’t reproduce as fast. Especially when you think about the fact that night elves aren’t considered mature before reaching 300 years of age.
Second problem is that there are technically way more female Kal’dorei than male, because male tend to be druids and vanish into the emerald dream

So a city for a species that has lost a huge chunk of their population is just a bad idea. I mean even Teldrassil was one the emptiest cities in the game before the burning and extinction happened.

" I mean even Teldrassil was one the emptiest cities in the game before the burning and extinction happened." This is because of gameplay, not lore. There’s a difference between the two which requires some differentation. We’re talking about the lore now.

“Especially when you think about the fact that night elves aren’t considered mature before reaching 300 years of age.” You don’t know how many of the remaining elves are under 300 or above 300 years of age. It could very well be that the elves which are left are all mature and is perfectly fertile. This is pure speculation. Neither what you said nor what I am saying can be verified.

In the Illidan novel, it is stated Night elves reach maturity at an age of 20, not 60-110. However, it is usually around the age of 110 that the female Kaldorei undergo a rite of passage, to signify their ascent into adulthood and purpose in life.

And as far I am aware, the Illidan novel is canon.

The males of their society going away for prolonged periods of time was a thing during the long vigil. The long vigil is over. It ended with WC3. After that, the druids didn’t go back into their burrows to protect the Emerald Dream. They’ve been active in their purpose to protect the world ever since the Legion invaded the second time.

Also, in the Warcraft III campaign it is suggested that druids were slumbering in the Emerald Dream in various periods of time, some of them were sleeping for ~10000 years (Malfurion), some of them ~3000 years (Druids of the Claw), depending on need, they probably were “sleeping” in intervals. They defended the Dream, then they awoke to spend time with their people, do stuff in Azeroth, and went back to slumber.

There is also no reason to believe that there are more female Kaldorei born than there are male Kaldorei born. And not all male Kaldorei became druids. Many are warriors and hunters also.

It’s also spelled Kaldorei, not Kal’dorei. There is no apostrophe in their name like with the Shal’dorei or Quel’dorei. Just pointing that out because people seem to be making that mistake all the time, for some reason. It is also kind of revealing. If you presume to speak on behalf of a race whose name you can’t spell properly, I am not entirely convinced you know that much about the race you’re speaking of.

Anyways. As can be seen from the Battle of Darkshore Warfront, most of the night elves’ army and navy, including Tyrande Whisperwind, Malfurion Stormrage, Shandris Feathermoon, Maiev Shadowsong, Jarod Shadowsong, Thisalee Crow and Mordent Evenshade, seem to have survived, although many of their family members were likely killed in the fire.

So while I am totally on board with you that the Night Elves are almost extinct (and that is not the first time it’s happened. Just look at the Quel’dorei. They are now practically a playable race, only they go by the name of Ren’dorei. It’s been years since WC3, so the Quel’dorei’s had ample time to reproduce and grow children).

The Night Elves lives on. That’s just a fact. Their numbers are going to increase unless another war decimates them, but there is now peace between the Horde and Alliance. It’s not like Blizz is going to make a playable race go extinct. They will grow their numbers again and there will be a good reason to give them a city eventually. Might as well just give them a new city sooner rather than later. They can use any lands on Kalimdor in the north, like Ashenvale, Hyjal, Winterspring, Feralas, etc.

I’m in favor of the night elves having a city; however what I don’t want is the night elves having some big amazing city, that makes the other elves looks lousy - all in the name of “the night elves are the original elves so they should be the best.”

The Kaldorei actually lost their city of splendor 10k years ago. Suramar. The Nightborne, which the Kaldorei evolved into, has adopted it as their capital and it is far more extravagant than any other elven cities out there. Even more than Silvermoon.

Darnassus, as big as it was, most likely paled in comparison to Suramar. Any future city the Kaldorei carve out for themselves will probably be modest, but they have mixed together stone and wood before. It’d be fitting for them to do the same thing again. I mean, they are called Night Elves after all, not Wood Elves.

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Yeah make Kalimdor great again!.

Sorry, couldn’t resist. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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With a next Dragon expansion, it’s very likely the Night Elves will get new city as home. I hope it will be something really a good one like Suramar but more nature based like Darnassus.

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