The best ever city for Night elves

Community General Discussion
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And in all of that, she still compared Thalyssra to Azshara.

That is what you’ve said in the past.
I’m sorry, but I don’t want that. I was happy to see the Night Elves go back to Kalimdor, reclaim their forests and are now living on Hyjal - which has been a core place for them, for 10,000 years.

It’s taken Blizzard a while, but finally they are following the lore and putting the Night Elves in a suitable location. They don’t belong in Suramar anymore and they can certainly go and whistle, if they think they can move into Silvermoon.

Liadrin and Lor’themar make much better diplomats.

Maybe, if Alleria Windrunner had been the Nightborne diplomat, she would have won them over to the Alliance.
Vereesa and Tyrande, even between them, couldn’t win a monkey over to the Alliance.

Source them then.

Your better at headcanon, than the canon lore because you’ve still got the whole “nightborne needs to be alliance” thing still going on.

When are you going to get over the Nightborne? You claim to want the best for Night Elves, but you sure as hell talk WAY too much about the Nightborne…

Here’s a thought - why not talk about the Night Elves, instead of involving the Nightborne…? Since Nightborne are Horde.

Thalyssra states that they have changed.

Nightborne are their own race with their own set of outlooks - these differ from Tyrande and her lot. Blizzard tells us they are a new group of Elves.

Nightborne are not tied, nor are they dependent on nelfs. And I will use Nightborne as their own race, since that is what they are. They just have 1 or 2 core sections within their society, that being Mage (and Warrior, if you wanted to push it.)

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the best city for a night elf is a city on fire.

1 Like
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I will take that as a compliment good sir/madame…

Hmm, Ask CDev round 2 tells a rather different picture. It is also stated that the Shen’dralar lost of most of the ‘Ancient’ magic when Eldre’thalas almost totally fell… Whilst the Blood Elves were original enraged by what they saw at the Kaldorei hypocrisy in accepting Highborne to train new Night Elf mages, after using the Arcane as the basis for exiling -themselves- this turned to amusement at the ‘rookie mistakes’ that were being made. Though there is some residual concern however as to whether in trying to ‘up their game’, the Kaldorei may cause some new catastrophe. Certainly Highborne efforts to create Arcane Constructs were referred to as ‘child-like’ and the Sin’dorei had no problem ‘hacking’ the Constructs and turning them against the Alliance.
It’s pretty fair to say that having lost ancient secrets, and exiling most of the Highborne, the Kaldorei are not particularly ‘better’ than any race of Elves right now, as with a few exceptions like Mordent Evershade, the species is very much having to ‘start from scratch’ when it comes to most Kaldorei Magi.

The Shaldorei seem to be the absolute kings and queens of Telemancy and Chronomancy, moreover never eschewed the use of the Arcane as part of general society. After all, Kaldorei, Shal’dorei, Quel’dorei and Sin’dorei are all of the same genetic stock. The reason I exclude Ren’dorei is that, well, their ‘genetics’ have been changed right down to the colour of their actual blood!

Apparently not. There is no evidence that. I mean I’ll get the -jokey- explanation out of the way first. :rofl: “Well, Intellect is a Mage’s primary stat…Draenei and Night Elves start with 23, Humans too! Blood Elves start of with a whopping great 26! They start off with more Mana pool that those three Alliance races too!, they all get 165, Blood Elves 210!”

We got to watch out for the Gnomes though!, Intellect 27, and 15 points more mana pool than Blood Elves Grrrr, shakes fist! :stuck_out_tongue:
On a more serious note, Draenei magic is likely to have taken a very different theme and style, in the same way that their relationship with The Light is different to humans, and why a Vindicator is not a Paladin. It is likely to have taken a different path that is much more in synch with the Light, the two almost entwined not with pure academia, as the Light is a fairly pervasive element in all Draenei society. Perhaps most importantly, when we are talking about pure Arcane, it is never evidenced in game, or in lore, that Draenei actually exceed any of the shorter lived races. Perhaps this is because of the dual function purpose of their Mages, combining Light and Arcane in their workings? But that is speculation.

With regards Humans? Nope. We know three most powerful mortal Archmages on Azeroth (We don’t know where Thalyssra fits into this) and they are all of equivalent power. That is Khadgar, Jaina, and Aethas Sunreaver, Closely followed by Archmage Modera.

We also know that Grand Magister Rommath regards Aethas as ‘childish’ in terms of his power, being vastly more powerful himself. So as far as we know right now, That there is the most powerful Mortal Mage, Grand Magister Rommath.

Ermm…She really -did- turn up! Thalyssra even shows the Horde player in the Nightborne Recruitment quests exactly what Tyrande said when she turned up… (Chronomancy must be wonderful like that, like having a magical dictophone! :smiley: “I Never said that! Let’s replay that episode of history, is that you, saying that?” “Curses, foiled again!”

I quite like that facet of Tyrande’s character, that she -is- fallible (I mean the alternative would be appalling Jaina/Sylvanas style writing). It makes her more believable, especially when you remember that sure, they’ve not aged for 10,000 years, but all three, Tyrande, Malfurion and Illidan were all pretty young when the aging stopped. Obviously they’ll have progressed, but it does explain a lot.

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By now I’ve renamed Stormwind to “Stormnassus” because of the elves living there. :wink:

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This really annoys blood elf fans like leia… might explain his hostility towards night elves… it’s jealousy.

And I don’t understand it. Are people so wrapped up in faction rivalry, and can’t actualy see it’s like your left arm being jealous of your right arm - it’s futile. But then jealousy always was.

The ngiht elves are the birth of all elves, the lore has them having gone the furthest in arcane magic and the greatest as far as civilization is concerned… CDev moment? This is s what our story is. Blood elves are a fallen post apocalyptic descendant of original night elves who were far more powerful and knowledgeable. Most of the knowledge of the elves was lost.

The Darnassians also lost a lot, also fallen - they are both the survivors that won a war that destroyed their civilization and sundered the world. However, the Darnassian kaldorei you play a goodly portion of are the much larger body, and having members who still around from that age, they’d have a much larger pool of expertise than the exiled Sunstriders (if any fan would consider honestly without getting into a jealous fit of rage)… the only thing is they weren’t employing their knowledge or rebuilding it because of their ban. … what ever secrets they have with them remain with them in their heads.

Now some might be coming out now that some have returned to arcane magic…but most of the knowledge of the kaldorei civilization that was lost exists with the Shen’drlaar and Nightborne.

However what I was referring to was what the lore has attributed to the night elves.

It’s absolutely stupid to think or get jealous of this, it’s just how it is… your typical forum fan though basically think like “oh my elf tribe is better than yours” … you’re both survivors of the same civilization, who’s achievements greatly outstrip what you have manged to relearn or recover on your own. Never occurred to you why I like all the playable elves huh! PERSPECTIVE. I see things or try tot see things from above.

This should not make you feel threatened or lesser unless you are a pompous arrogant git who thinks he is superior, so when someone points out to you that actually you’re not that great or others, are greater (especially your fictional rivals), you get into a huff and a puff…

It is what it is, might as well be jealous of the titans and the dragons or the eredar…but wait, if they joined the alliance you would be won’t you. and if they didn’t you wouldn’t.

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I did the quests, I udnerstood them, and Cdevs has answered those questions.

You fight Darnassians who’ve returned to the arcane after 10,000 years, greatly out of practice, some of their knowledgge outdated. You don’t fight shen’drlaar there.

These guys have only been a few weeks training before being sent to the warfront. Many of them were highborne 10,000 years ago or Moonguard, all had set aside magic and stayed with the main group, agreeing with the ban they all voted for.

They are very much out of practice and someof the knoweldge they employ is outdated. You are shown exactly what.

But don’t presume to use this as evidence the sin’dorei are more advanced than the kaldorei empire, the lore tells you they are not. don’t assume that this is the Shen’dralar who never stopped using magic, or updating their skills.

Look I get it, when you don’t like a group, and think yourself superior or rather the group you like and play superior, you don’t think much about the other person’s situation or what you are facing. You don’t care enough to do so. But the signs are all there and not everything is spelled out for a player, but you can deduce based on the information that frames the context for the quests you are given.

Devs understand their lore, and there is a lot of background discussed and understood that frames the stories and quests they give, even if they annoyingly made the alliance always feel so weak against the horde for most of wow (until 8.1 Dazara’lor quests and terror in Darkshore -first time in game alliance actually look stronger and omg, the amount of horde anger was just silly). They are not perfect, but you have to udnerstand they don’t spell things out, and explain, the information that provides the context is there though.

Understand

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Some people are so against the kaldorei - i mean, they literally balk at blizzard doing anything from kaldorei lore for the race.

I mean when did having a night elf city suddenly be agains tth enight elves, or having various aspects of their lore restored and improved some terrible crime?

The hypocrisy is incredulous… blizzard designs lore for all these races, and they have drawn things from that lore to advance their story and show new sides to them, they have odne this rpeeatedly with many races including the night elves… yet non-night elven fans are the loudest voices saying this should not happen. Blood elf ones mainly like Leia.

Okay, I’ll be fair, he doesn’t do that anymore (well no where near as much), and those that have done it have lessened signifcianctly. But I still don’t like it when I see it happen

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Gnomes want to have a word with Blizzard. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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LOL , gnomes sitting in the corner like " am i joke to you !? "

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But seriously, the Darnassians have a core aesthetic theme, but it has never been as ingular one, in fact actually there is much of them taht hasn’t been shown and that lack has led us to take the forest aesthetic as their core.

in the nightborne blizzard hne in on the civilziation side of the night elves, but it isn’t mutually exculsive with the alliance lot anymore than the Lightforged draenei showing the light means that draenei can’t… this is made up in the midns of players and propogated by a few blood elf fans who don’t want night elves to get anything “pretty” as they see it.

Haivng ane legant pre-sunderingt ype city, nesteld atop a tree or sorrounded by a forest, as grand as Suramar or Zin’Azsahari is every bit kaldorei. and is important actually to showt hat the race isn’t singular in one way.

It doesn’t remove any forest aethsetic or theme because the druids are and wil always be a core part of that race too.

It’s just those fans ignoring the highborne, moonguard, the night elven civilzaiton, the reality of Darnassus, adn that night elves are far more than just forest elves - there is awhole dark elf side too.

It is one of the reasons why a great night elf city is important - but at the end of the day, who doens’t want to have a racial capital look stunning… and you gotta tell me why only the horde night elves (the nightborne) should ahve astunning kaldorei city)

All their excuses are just taht excuses because they don’t want the alliance side to have anything they may be envious o, especially now they know hwo nice kaldorei civilziaiton stuff is… it’s jsut excuses.

i’ve heard things like oh night elves don’t do cities (nonsense) or it should be wooden buildings like the ones in aStranar or Lor’danel(also nonsense, those are rural architecture, not city and night elves always used those, they used those in the pre-sundering times in forest or remote country lodges).

A city isn’t nature is another excuse - well d’uh it isn’t, it’s for humanoids - but nature love can exist in cities - that’s why they have parks, and horuse have gardens, , cities have gorves in them too Furthermore the idea of acity actually fits the night elves a dual race that also recognise and would prefer a much of the forest to be untampered with bysnetinet lives, including themselves, they’d actually prefer the larger part of their population to be gathered in one place

A city, this is how it was in the pre-sudnering era, those night elves though arcane intensive were not nature phobic…quite the opposite - we see treants in Dire Maul, and we read Zin’Azsahari and Suramar and all the likes were made by a combo of arcane and nature magic.

Besides, having ac ity doesn’t and neve rhas excluuded a forest either. They are just trying to make people think that way.

I tell you this though, the alliance races, in the night elves need to be nice enough to make hordies jealous and so want to switch to them if people are ever going to go to alliance. Blizzard really have to stop putting the lesser features on the alliance, and rather start making them shine brighter.

Let the night elves shine brighter than the nightborne - nightborne are s ub-race anyway, and only emphasise a part of the much bigger whole, let thee kaldorei have their great city with highbore, civilzians, trade, craftsmen, acdemies, HQs for the military aand other orders etc, but in addition they will show other aspects of the kaldorei tha tthe nightborne hdon’t or have a very little off, like the order of Elune and druidism - this is because this is the main race. Like these guys on the horde… well if you want more come to thea lliance and now see the full picture.

Now ofc some owould stay horde, that’s fine, nightborne should be attractive too, but they are a portion of the night elves on the other faction.

I would say also increase the void elves and high elves, these are an alliance race that was also taken tot he horde in the form of the blood elves. don’t diminish the blood elves. I know it would upset the blood elf fans too much… but the the high elf is an original core alliance race, so build it up. so you have an expression of it on the horde and you have it on the alliance as well, plus you have this new void element there, let us explore much more of the Thalassians on the alliance, and i would say, develop the blood elf stuff to include the high elves, so being a Thalassian is identified as much on the alliance as it is the horde, with the alliance having the additional caveat of the void.

At least do this for a season - the whole point is let the alliance ones be more attractive , enough to tempt horde players to switch, that would be the goal too. I’m just suggesting one way, but it doesn’t have to be that.

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Blood Elves are the core race and they must have everything better than the allied races of void elves and high elves.

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Normally yes, main races are a larger visualisation of the allied race… usually, unless off course it is shown otherwise, like with the Zandalari.

All the allied races show this, yes, including the nightborne, who only show the kaldorei civilization part, not the rest, whereas amongst the kaldorei you have civilization (Darnassus), arcane (highborne/moonguard) as well as demon hunters (illidari), Sentinels, Wardens, and Moon Priestesses - which the Nightborne don’t have -or if they do, they are much smaller.

This is acceptable.

However, for the alliance’s sake I’m saying void elves and high elves should be as prominent or even more so than blood elves, there is precedence for this ofc, given that high elves are on the alliance, very popular and off course a core part of the alliance - they along with void elves should be greatly developed.

Now how?, that is for the developers to decide, whether they build up extensively the high elves and void elves, or they diminish the blood elves by taking them through what they did with the night elves and void elves. Personally, my preference (if you can understand these words and what they mean), is they build up the high elves with the humans, and do some more quests with the void elves, explain more about the void elves

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Where are the night elves, diminished since the last 3 expansions - we’ve seen them.

It’s the blood elves that need the development right now - and they need to built up so their city and land reflects the current times. (Quel’Thalas being for the Horde players only as a quest location. Alliance can have the Draenei Isles.)

And the developers clearly still love the Blood Elves since the 8.1 patch included both night elf and blood elf content. I think this is a continuous personal wish that you want two fanbases to have a bad time, just to make you feel better about yourself.

And like I say, Blood Elves are the core Thalassian race and must be better than High Elves and Void Elves, in most fields (barring void)

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A little attention does not equal built up. they’ve had short spurts that haven’t amounted to anything. the short spurt being a warfront. That’s i.

Tyrande’s storyline is the first she’s had since the game launch - for such a representative of the night elves (compare that to jaina, Sylvanas, Khadgar, Thrall, Garrosh etc)
Azshara also appears meaningfully with stroy for the first itme in 8.2
Illidan - fine we got a little of Illidan in TBC - just the black temple, despite him being the villain of the expansion, then in 7.2 and 7.3
Malfurion - the druid representative - we see a glimpse in darkshore (twice) and his only meaningful excursion is Hyjal

Sorry, but that is pittance. rest oft he time we see night elves outside their local zones in Kalimdor or broken isles and sometimes in them, is being whooped by hordes, and incredibly slow development.

I do appreciate the work in 7.0 though with Suramar, the nightborne, the Farondis , the Wardens and Black Rook hold, very iconic, also liked the feral druid in Val’sharah. Not enough of the priestesses by a long shot.

Thalassians by comparison have had extensive showing since TBc. Their launching expansion had them involved heavily in the storyline, present in 3 zones - 2 blood elven and a small high elven role in Terokkar forest.
Scryer and Aldor
Tempest keep in Netherstorm and their instances.
They also had a grand finale in the Sunwell Plateau.
WotLk - had a major focus in the Silver covenant and Sunreavesr and they led the Argent Tournament raid in that patch too
Cata - saw heavy humiliation so night elves in Azshara and Desolace
MoP - saw them as the spearhead of the factions’ Thunder King assault
WoD - they were the ones helping the Draenei in Shattrath in that quest line
Legion - they show up in 7.1 with the elven armies
BFA - they are the horde half of the Naz’jatar storyline.

However, I am up for more blood elf development, they’ve been having a little bit all the time, overtaking same with trolls, but it’s been a while since they’ve had a serious focus.

With void elves in the mix now, and missing their big zone storyline, it would be a perfect opportunity to revisit the blood elves too when they do the void elves.

The blood elves do need development, agreed. updates to Silvermoon and Quel’thalas for sure.

I don’t want the fanbases to have a bad time at all, I want it to be good. if you weren’t so focused on being cheated, you’d see that clearly. You seem a bit unrealistic in how the alliance is going to look good. To attract you blue, the alliance elves are going to have to be more attractive than the horde elves and get better development.

This doesn’t mean the horde elves shouldn’t get story progression and updates. They should, and i think it would serve both groups well if they were both involved with each other. It’s my opinion.

Better in what sense?

You see when i say better, i don’t mean power, no, power wise everyone is equal, at least amongst the heroes of the races… when it comes to racial aggregate, all the elven groups are imilar, although by lore some just have more, than others.

When I mean more, I mean story focus, asset building, for example, if they share Silvermoon and Quel’thalas, they would be a heavier focus on high elves and void elves - this so doesn’t mean blood elves won’t be in there, they would be, but the void and high elves will shine brighter.

Things would also work out in favour of the night elves with nightborne/night elf interaction and progression, whether it involves Suramar or not.

None of this means it would be bad for nightborne or blood elves, it’s just that the alliance ones would be more prominent and show up better. Because they are the ones being promoted and improved to make more appealing for players like you to switch to them.

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But I wouldn’t switch to them.

They are clearly terrible races, who have to be involved with horde stuff to actually look decent. More like “pity races” than decent races.

It would be embarrassing for the alliance to keep the night elves and void elves, since they can’t win or have anything of their own. Might as well delete both and maybe give alliance more Human/Dwarf and Draenei races, like the Broken Draenei and Wildhammer Dwarf

So you do just want the blood elves and nightborne to be worse off and to be second-class citizens in their nations that rightfully belong to them and rightfully, they should rule them.

Plus, I don’t care for night elves and you obsessing over them talking to nightborne. Nightborne can speak to diverse races like Forsaken, Sin’dorei, Zandalari Trolls, Orcs, Highmountain Tauren and Darkspear Trolls.
Alliance would be extremely limiting, by just forcing them to ONLY interact with night elves.

I don’t want your kinks to push me towards the alliance.

What you want would make me delete my alliance elves because they are just bad races. Clearly, they can’t progress without the Horde Elves. Tragic Elves is what they should be renamed to, in your world.

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The best way to do a night elf city is

Basically copy paste suramar but:

  1. change the arrangemetn

  2. Change the lighting,

  3. have the buildings glow moon white and sparkling silver

  4. Have the runes and moon crescents glowing with arcane power

  5. Change the flower and trees - import the galaxy trees from Arden weald

  6. Have the city atop Teldrassil 2.0 - which should also be part arcane part nature for extra protection - again - i would copy from Arden weald

  7. Fill it with beautiful gardens, groves, parks and also critters, some animals and treants roaming the streets like we had in Darnassus - the animals won’t be wild animals - i mean Sabers like mounts, Moonkin - , hipporgryphs, chimeara, owls, Cenarians too that visit the city.

  8. Statues, fountains, a Cathedral (copy of CoEN but witht he proper colouring). They shoudl also give mind to the trees and have different colour arangemnts, from pinks, to whites, then purple and blues and off coruse green. I would have a colour change at night that is more reminiscent of Arden weald at night, and val’sharah during the day.

for Void elf City:

  1. Duplicate whatever is done for SIlvermoon - or do void elf city and duplicate it for Silvermoon

  2. Differences are a variation of the towers and symbols. Blood elves would have a golden phoenix wings, smooth towers in white and red.
    Void elves would have dark gold , with void wings (like their heritage armor chest) on building tops, the colouring of the buildings would be different as well ast eh back ground

  3. Location would be Telogrus rift or void realm of Quel’thalas - it would be Void Silvermoon if in Quelt’halas, but give it a different name.

  4. other difference include intersting void bestiary, warped trees instead of normal ones if in void quel’thalas. If in telogrus do something amazing like rivers of void energy like streams of water all manner of void creatures

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A void realm doesn’t work because it would destroy the Sunwell. Light and void can’t touch. It’s what we saw when Alleria touched the Sunwell.

It has to be elsewhere, if Blizzard are keeping the Sunwell (which I reckon, they are.)

You need to pay close attention and don’t come back with “Well change the story because -ma alliance elves!” It can’t be changed now. Otherwise, your retconning the entire reason why void elves were exiled.

So, the night elf city is just a very small circle, with a lot of closed doors?

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There is aa void realm every where, did you not do the Mac’aree quests and the void elf intro quests? The ethereals attack silvermoon from the void realm oat Quel’thalas, they are there, but in that dimension. The sunwell is not in that dimension as it is pure power, there hope was to turn it into a font of void /arcane energy and use it. ,

I woudln’t be surprised if they build a city reminiscent of home - i.e. Suramar they once came from, and notalgic about s ince returning there in 7.0

I don’t know about closed doors, the cities are full of them, however they ahve enough templates in Legion for the Catehdral, temples, and city buildings already open and useable. They just need to copy paste, re-arrange a little, and change some fo the tapestryies fto brighter ones imo.

Thes elf groups are all related, I’m sure they’re not going to spend too much time coming up with vastly different designs when hey have good ones. Void elves and blood elves are the ame people, same style - what ever you do for one can be mirrored to the other with minor changes.

Same for night elves and nightborne - nightborne are literally the darnassians that stayed in Suramar - for cities it’s exactly the same style.

But they are welcome to spend time doing a new concept, I just very much doubt you would get one unless one of these is a focus. The void elves are more likely to be a focus since they didn’t get their major zone - and the void is going to play a bigger role.

The night elves already got Suramar and Zin’Azshari - their concept is already in, So to do the draenei - it really is just copy pasting the design and making it nicer.

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Have you not been to the phased area that the Horde players have access to?

That is all nightborne / horde players have. No Suramar City as a whole and it won’t ever be converted to a city like Silvermoon or Orgrimmar because it was never designed to be like them.

Well new city in void elf void realm.

Are void elves just too much of a bad race that they can’t develop their own new style? Think void-castle nathria and Tempest Keep? That could be the new void elf-style city.

Hell, even Lightforged Draenei have their own style away from regular Draenei. Void elf fans just need to be creative with what they’ve got and brainstorm ideas.

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One of the difference between a new night elf city and Suramar would be the lighting.

Tbh, the night elf city should be the best ever work. there is sufficent lore grounds for this (not that you need it), the elven magi, druids and priests are at a greater level of knowledge, having gained 10k years additional knoweldge over the work they did 10-15,000 years ago.

remember this is the largest body of night elves, they will have more expertise from around the empire, including anceints that carry exact memoy detail of everything, not to mention that idyllic elven memory.

With the shen’drlaar and moonguard remnant back, they would have knowledge, plus the improvements they made in both the arcane and druidism off course, which is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was before.

Finally, so too would faith in Elune.

One thing they could do is where Suramar has a very night dark feel, the new night elf city would have a night bright moon/silver feel. Let’s have some more fantasy magic, Priest magic enlarging the effect of moonlight of the city, mage magic causing the walls to glow moonlight white, druids having the star effects as acorns and leaf boughs glisten with arcane power falling like star dust from the heavens. If you add to it those ardenweald galaxy trees, the effect can be quite astonishing with the exact same architecture of Suramar, with just alterations to the layout and assets and creatures.

Well, I really hope they would do a new style, there is a possibility if the void plays a large focus and they do a void elf zone as teh central end level zone of the new expansion , similar to what Suramar was. This can create an entirely new aesthetic and it would be wonderful.

However, if they do not, and they update Silvermoon, ad void city would also work as a modified new Silvermoon - the colour scheme changes, and you have more void like twists to towers and structures. That would work well.

Either way, it’s in the best interest of everyone that whatever new they do, it would be stunning.