The cycle of hatred [ Spoilers ] [ speculation ]

The cycle of hatred is what led to this vicious war, it is what made Saurfang so readily attack the nightelves, this cycle of hatred is just like Saurfang said borne out of the lies both Horde and the Alliance told themselves.

The horde claimed honor while they slaughtered innocents, waged wars and pillaged, they often fought amongst themselves when things got out of hand yet they were always ready to go back at it again, their definition of honor is blurred.

The Alliance claimed honor while they never took steps to coexist with the horde, the dwarves tried to drive the orcs out of alterac, the humans hunted the forsaken on sight, the night elves were too selfish and self centered to try and see the other sides point of view, every crime went under the rug and every righteous act was echoed as a justification, a clear example was Gen’s attack on Sylvannas, the fact that it cost both the alliance and horde a lot and that a lot of horde innocents were killed were swept under the rug because see Sylvannas is evil!

Saurfang stated it perfectly, the cycle of hatred must be broken and to break it the horde and alliance have to denounce them selves, they are no longer horde or alliance rather inhabitants of Azeroth A force that defends azeroth!

So how did it all come to this?

I think Sylvannas is a martyr whose sacrifice shall never be known.

So what do I mean by this?

After rewatching the BFA cinematic trailer, Sylvannas said it herself :-

" Ours is a cycle of hatred. Alliances forged and broken. We have paid the price for sharing this world and we have forgotten what makes us strong. "

Me thinks Saurfang and Sylvannas are in on this debacle, the Villain that slays the Hero while showing it’s true colors, causing both sides to question their own moralities and join together.

Now if this is true then Sylvannas should’ve fought and died right there after Saurfang dies, or set it up so that they both kill eachother.

But! that didn’t happen, so why did she do that? simple.

The only character that ever went to death and came back is Sylvannas windrunner, if you think about it the undead were all brought back but they know nothing about the afterlife and they all came back changed, scarred, furious and wicked.

Sylvannas knows something we don’t know, and inorder to combat it the very famous 3D/4D/xD chess jokes are being thrown around.

I think Sylvannas isn’t serving death, rather she is acting as a double agent, just like Illidan however she’s far more subtle about it and she knows she can’t be discovered.

Reasons I say this are :-

  • Sylvannas threw herself off ICC after killing Arthas, if she was always planning to stay alive and rule she wouldn’t have done that
  • Sylvannas stated explicitly during the war campaign that she wants to MASTER death, not serve it.
  • Sylvannas doesn’t kill the loyalist player and infact gives them a kind of goodbye.
  • The way Nathanos talked to Sylvannas and she talked to him in the loyalist quest was with a sad tone, as if they were preparing to die or are going to lose eachother, as you arrive Nathanos confirms to her that there will be no hesitation once they start.
  • Like others have pointed out, if she really wanted max body count, she would’ve killed Saurfang fairly and annihilated the horde and alliance then turned on the remnant loyalist hordes and killed them.
  • Sylvannas finally made the Horde and Alliance admit to their mistakes, see their own mistakes and understand that they aren’t flawless and aren’t always the good guys
  • Sylvannas prevented the war that was going to come the real war that she talked about to saurfang that would come soon once both sides has recuperated and that war is going to be far more gruesome than what we’ve seen, on a bigger scale than just burning teldrassil

So what is the outcome of this? I’m thinking Sylvannas will betray death and backstab it to kill it, kind of like how Loki wanted to do Thanos in the avengers.

Why does she want to do this? I’m thinking Sylvannas knows that not only do the undead get put in that horrible realm of torment, rather everyone that dies, and inorder to end that realm of torment Sylvannas wants to kill it’s master, so that souls of the dead can finally be free to rest for eternity and she with them, Sylvannas wants to die in peace, we know this because she killed herself after achieved her goal ( in killing Arthas ) but she can’t have that because " Death " is out there waiting for her to torment her.

Tl;dr

The whole Mak’gora was planned, the whole finale was planned, Saurfang / Sylvannas / Nathanos are in on this, they did that because she wants to get " deaths " trust and unite the horde and alliance, she played the Villain and at the final moment she will betray “death” and kill it and die with it, no one will know but the fact that the villain Sylvannas died.

3 Likes

Sounds like the most convoluted and ridiculous fan-theory of a Sylvanas-fan who can’t accept her “bae” is a cliché pure evil villainess.

Blizzard doesn’t know how to write more complex things than that.

4 Likes

My speculation (hope) runs more along the lines of:

Sylvanas’ ultimate goal being to defeat the Void. And with Undead being resistant (if not immune) to Old God corruption, she wanted to kill everyone, as she doesn’t think the living can defeat the Void. And she thinks we’re all fools for not seeing it.

So she leaves, and starts her own Faction… A Faction that will defend Azeroth, but in her way, a Faction that will stop at nothing to achieve victory.
A Faction of Death that will guard Azeroth from the Void.
The Deathguard. (Name not important, I’m not good at naming things)

Then the Horde and Alliance will unite, (but still be Horde and Alliance)… They will unite in purpose, not into one faction. Faction unique transmogs, mounts and toys will still not be shareable across Horde and Alliance races.

PvP will be the Horde/Alliance vs The Deathguard.

Every player will be able to choose to freely switch to this new faction at the start of 9.0 (free of charge, through a questline).
Any player who joins will go through a questline where they are killed and risen as undead… So all races can join, but will do so as Undead, to better combat the Void.


I’m one of those that really disliked Sylvanas after her suicide… She had no point to her character beyond not upsetting her fanbois by killing her off the way I saw it… And her actions in BfA did nothing to make me like the character again…

I really liked her in WC:III, so I hope they can write it so that she becomes a cool character again, and not just a psychotic mass-murderer for the lulz.
Her starting this war and killing everyone, would make sense if she planned on using that for something…
And it would be cool to have a “Darker” faction… Instead of the “Two Good Factions, but not really”, we got now…

1 Like

I always saw this nu-Sylvanus as a selfish power hungry edge lord who will backstab anyone to get her way.

And that’s okay, as cliché as it is - as Warcraft as Warcraft can get.

Why are people trying to make her some sort of martyr or an actual good guy who’s “shown us the way”, defender of the universe and whatnot, that I don’t understand.

Can’t be the boobs, can it? :thinking:

1 Like

True, I liked her when she was just that shady character that acted in the shadows to try and get revenge.

Imo her suicide was the perfect ending for her.

When they announced her Warchief I disliked it, but hoped she may grow to like the living, gets some good old pep talk from saurfang and thrall and becomes a benevolent Warchief but that didn’t happen.

Her becoming a cackling maniac who acts just like the one who puts her through all this doesn’t sit well with me but I don’t mind it.

Atm I’m hoping for Thrall as a warchief or Zekhan ( Zappyboi ) or if blizzard would make my dream come true it would be a Loa of death / kings / war Voljin as warchief.

Speculation is fun, I enjoy it a lot, I like the character so why not? pretty sure she’s not the first character I made a speculation about.

The plot will be simple and idiotically predictable.
Blizz, would try making her a God by stealing the powers of the old god then we encounter her in a raid and then you know what will happen…MoPv2.0 with a different flavour.

At this point, it’s heading to MoP version. Also, blizz story writing sucks…

1 Like

I think that’s your opinion, sure it’s mine too in regards to the current expansion but they have wrote many wonderful stories before.

Imo blizzard is best at writing side characters and the side of adventurers.

We got Tehd shoe maker, Scorching sands outpost, Nazgrim, Zappyboi, faol, the scarlet crusade and ashbringer and many other side characters/stories that have some of the most amazing lore to them.

Didn’t aim at you in particular, every WoW related forums has people who would go out of their way to paint Sylvanus in a positive light.

It’s funny how each her act is more and more straight up villain-like, like Blizz is trying to say “she’s evil, deal with it, here it is, how much clearer can we make it???”, but that doesn’t stop the fanboys.

Reminds me of this scene

1 Like

It actually makes perfect sense. Where is our home? Azeroth. The Horde is nothing…compared to an entire planet. Frankly I feel like what we’ve seen is only the tip of the iceberg.

I’m not a fan.

I 100% think she’s going to be dead by the end of the next expansion but taking the downfall of one of the most popular characters in the Warcraft universe at face value seems a little daft.

The current state of the Night Elves speaks for itself :smile:

One of THE most iconic and popular WoW races got shat on more than anything in this expansion alone while the writers themselves straight up admitted they just don’t know what to make of them. :roll_eyes:

Sooo… something being popular apparently doesn’t prevent it from being ruined by the writers.

1 Like

Do you know of a better way to get people emotionally invested in the story? I main a Nelf so I completely understand the outrage but it’s not really related to topic is it?

Saurfang said it himself:

You tried, at Teldrassil, you failed. Hope remains. You sent us to kill each other, at Lordaeron, you failed. Hope remains.

and how many times have you heard Jaina say

A single spark can set the world aflame.

I don’t feel like it’s just benign neglect this time. It’s a big part of the BFA story and therefore MUST be addressed before they can move on though I can’t imagine what would adequately address the burning of so many civilians.

Edit: It’s really just my opinion and I fully accept that I might just be wrong but I hope I’m right. I hope they’re doing the right thing and not just killing people off for no reason. I sure as hell would end my sub if Tyrande was just randomly made a bad guy because…reasons.

I wonder if the night elf revenge plotline will be used in 8.3 or 9.0 as an Alliance-side player choice storyline? E.g. you can choose to side with Tyrande and seek vengeance, or to stick with the pursuit of peace between Horde and Alliance, like Horde players got to choose between Sylvanas and Saurfang. Seems rather unfair that Horde players got this type of content and Alliance players did not.

Anduin says that Tyrande isn’t answering him and fears she is consumed with vengeance. Genn cares nothing about faction peace and only wants to go after Sylvanas. On Wowhead there’s a list of text that NPC’s in Stormwind and Boralus say in reaction to the end of the war - including conversations between disgruntled night elves. I think there’s definitely more to come here!

Kill Tyrande and Malfurion, embrace the warden aspect, imperialistic legion style night elves = perfect ending for me imo.

I doubt even Classic could save them from this.

I was just making an example, that just because something is popular apparently doesn’t mean it’s protected from the whacko writers who are more about inserting their politics or sexual fantasies than actually making something good :joy:

The whole BfA story feels so weird to me, from characters acting irrationally stupid to established facts being ignored, all for sake of “cool” or shocking moments, as if trying to mimic GoT, but falling flat just as the late seasons did :smile:

I guess im a Sylvanas fangirl, because thats pretty mutch my exact theory, lol.

Slow neglectful decline culminating in the very deliberate destruction on a major faction city is not the same as a carefully planned out story arc spanning over 3 expansions.

I wouldn’t call trashing most of Legion (and pre-Legion) stablished facts as “careful planning”.

The only thing that carried over from Legion is the Azerite Mac Guffin :smile:

Yeah, I didn’t call it that either.