The main arms problem that they suck everywhere. No utility, no survivability, no damage. Gayass paladins or dh they both got overloaded kit, huge tons of damage and survivability. Arms has nothing. I’m sick of hearing that if arms plays with a heal he’s very good but let be honest, EVERY class with heal is good.
4 Likes
Hell no
Arms Warriors Deep Wounds Mastery is a unique special to the spec and having access to a almost 100% uptime high damage DOT also makes the spec already way stronger due to Deep Wounds often being Arms highest Damage Ability in long fights
Spreading it correctly by using Sweeping Strikes + Mortal Strike/Execute/Bladestorm (all cooldown-based/situation-based) is also something that separates the best Arms Warriors from the good ones
Besides that Arms is not really a wet noodle but a very burst-heavy spec
Of course Arms single target dmg is low due to the specs bursty nature and the burst being locked behind cooldowns (with cooldown reduction though (Anger Management)) but the spec is still very strong in 2-3 target situations with Fervor of Battle (+ Sweeping Strikes) and excels in AOE-situations with its extremely strong cooldowns (Warbreaker/Bladestorm, which also spreads Deep Wounds adding up to insane Damage in Multi Target)
So Deep Wounds really does much for the spec and locking it behind crits would also mean that you would have to crit with the bladestorm on every target do get the dot - do insane dmg etc. which wouldnt make any sense
Interesting, deep wounds worked with crits for many expansions where your actual abilities did damage and not your dot boosted by your mastery rating.
Also it was frkn cool to remove 20-25% of your enemy’s HP with a crit + hear the old deep wounds sound. Really gave the warrior an impactful feeling.
( http:/ /wowimg.zamimg.com/wowsounds/sound/spells/rendtarget.ogg )
dude our problem is with single and deep wounds itself because it doesn’t fit with hero fantasy
i sure arm does more aoe dps than others class but when it comes to single target or pvp its broken class
Why would you actually want to nerf Deep Wounds like that and take away the damage and the depth it adds to the spec by it being a consistent dot (because you dont have to crit)?
It basically adds another dimension to the spec and was imo a really good design idea combined with Sweeping Strikes being baseline now.
You can still remove 20-25% of your enemy’s HP with a crit so thats not something they took away and I feel like Warbreaker always felt like a very satisfying button at least to me.
@Hellishman Arms Warriors single target mainly comes down to not ragestarving while reducing your cooldowns on Warbreaker and Bladestorm (and using the cooldowns to build up rage again) and also keeping Deep Wounds up
In order to do that you also use Tactician Procs (and Crushing Assault if you got it equipped)
Arms warriors strength atm is clearly not single target damage - at least for long fights
And its archetype seems to be more of a tactical and patient fighter and not that one of Fury Warriors where you are just a living slaughterhouse
Also Arms Warriors always were weak when it comes to World PvP and 1v1 situations due to the lack of self healing they have since Vanilla - if its that what you were talking about when you said Arms was broken in PvP
It always was a healer that made both of you complete
i did that with essences but it actually lowers my dps in the raid. For mythic yes you are right. In my experience, the only things that make arm to do more dps is crit and rage management nothing else.
my point is focusing on mastery for more deep wounds dps its just lower your dps = trash
No Prio stats are definitely Crit (Crit auto attacks generate more rage/makes your attacks and your dot way heavier) and Haste (faster auto attacks = build rage quicker = more Mortal Strikes = also more Deep Wounds).
Mastery is better than Versa but actually doesnt really matter.
people here try to get to see big numbers not small and fast numbers are going around
There are big numbers though
Warbreaker which is an AOE button that also increases your dmg on a target by 30% regularly crits for up to 140K and on some bosses you can get 280-360K Crits too at least these are my highest ones
With Crushing Assault you can also get some really big numbers
not within one single ability
i can do a single hit of slam 200k or 120 dps but they have got nerfed in pvp all of abilities do around 30k not more
for me to see those big numbers is 15%
My Warbreakers get to do up to 70K
Thats not bad at all
I remind you that you also got a 50% healing debuff for 6 seconds which is extremely valuable
because you got the abilities to increase its dps and i got abilities that give me chance to do 120k or 200k slam dps
Yeah but whats the problem with it?
Arms weakness is definitely not its dmg/kill potential in PvP but moreso it being kiteable/having weak defensives
Just means its gear-dependent
No amount of gear can offset our lack of immunity or good healing or good mobility in pvp. People can always work around us because all of what we have is damage and nothing else. I don’t see how gear is gonna change that.
The healing is a problem i agree with that. However ,the mobility i feel its fine even tho they can make it way better like giving us bounding stride as a baseline heroic leap. but you can use the bladestorm azries to get 30% movment speed and Fight or flight is good as well on that regards. Azrites can fix alot of that and if you wanna stay in your target almost 100% uptime then get that essence with anger managment “Vision of prefection” at least as minor.
I would get some tanking trinkets for the sad survival atm and focus on the azrites with healing and absorbs. You will be fine then.
I don’t want to nerf it, I want to get rid of it totally.
The fact arms is a dot spec now makes me vomit, it ALWAYS was a hard hitting spec and crit was an important stat.
It did hit hard, made the enemy bleed and it was a lot of fun. Now its weak, does dot damage and has 0 depth to play.
I mean you don’t even have to use your brain to pop sweeping + ms or bladestorm on a pack of mobs.
3 Likes
Nobody cares about arms dot damage in PvP. Nobody is afraid of it.
PvP has always been about peak damage, bursts and huge pressure with CC. Dot classes are even worse now in this era of wow, where strong defenses + self healing is all around.
Arms having most damage coming from a dot is an abomination for the spec.
Bring back the hard hitting MS and the executing Execute…
5 Likes
@Hellskul Obviously but Arms has these problems already since Vanilla
The best things we ever got to fix this problem were Second Wind in MoP/ Soul of the Slaughter in Legion
Soul of the Slaughter only made you a bit like a Fury Warrior (means you have to hit something in order to heal yourself and in that way forces you to tunnel a target) which means you were very weak vs CC/slows/roots and still leaves the spec weak in WPvP/Duels and Second Wind still left you weak to burst damage
I feel like Arms Warriors being weak in Duel environments (in every version of WoW) is something thats not going to change but better gear ofc allows you to kill an enemy before he kills you (which is the way Arms dueling works)
@Widdershins Arms actually always had dots (Rend/Old Deep Wounds) that you had to use too in previous expansions
Also I already said that Arms Warriors still hit hard with triple-stacking Lord of War/Crushing Assault increasing your Warbreaker/Slam damage immensely
I really cant agree on the 0 depth part because I still see many people playing Arms in a flawed way (not spreading Deep Wounds on every target by moving towards other targets with Sweeping Strikes up/ spending Warbreaker/Bladestorm unneccessarily and losing lots of damage in AOE situation that way)
@Bragamond The dot adds passive pressure that the healer has to waste heals/mana on
Arms still has Sharpen Blade which takes 50% of the healing done on a target away and is actually very strong to set up kill attempts and has to be countered with CC
Arms also has a 4 second stun on a 30 seconds cooldown which is also very strong for setting up kill attempts
Mechanically it makes very much sense that most/2nd most of our dmg comes out of a high damage Dot (that crit-ticks for 10k for me at least) because you always got uptime on it while you have to change your rotation on low hp opponent (replacing Mortal Strike with Execute and making Mortal strike unable to be our top damage ability but making sometimes Execute our top damage ability)
I agree with you on the Mortal Strike doing significantly less damage compared to previous expansions but the Execute still feels executing if you use many rage points for it
Make an experiment, put only your dots on a target with a healer and see how much effort it costs him to keep the target alive…
Will be close to 0.
In current wow dots are mostly irrelevant, unless super OP and unbalanced, Blizzard are buffing mastery over and over again, screwing up arms trying desperately to prove they didn’t fail miserably, still arms kill potential is poor. Damage is low, why?
Because dots in PvP, even in previous expansions have never been very powerful with few exceptions when they are grossly overtuned.
Your dot’s crit for 10k? WoW, in 6 seconds if ALL of them crit you will do 60k. A ret, in 6 seconds would have done more damage with only his direct hits than you have done with your direct hits PLUS your poor dots and you would have probably died in a healer HoJ from unrecoverable peak damage.
Not even to mention how drastically stupid is this image of the huge scary warrior with a big 2 hander that hits with…dots. 0 fantasy and lore consistansy.
Noone (except probably few exceptions) playing a warrior wants a dot class.
All want the original image of the hard hitting critting 2h monster that’s a bit heavy and clunky, doesn’t have the mobility of a DH or Monk, but when he rushes to you big chunks of your HP instantly disappear.
4 Likes
First of all idk actually what PvP you are talking about specifically
If its 2v2/3v3/WPvP/BGs but afaik Arms only probably suffers in WPvP and BGs because of the lack of self heal which is just a weakness of the spec
You can hardly compare an Arms Warrior to a Retribution Paladin
Arms strength is Cleave/AoE dmg while Rets seems to be stronger in Single Target (not hard to be better than Arms in ST atm though to be fair)
In PvE Ret is more of sustain heavy spec while Arms is an extremely burst heavy spec
In PvP both specs have different strengths and weaknesses
Arms Warriors burst clearly is weaker than Rets burst in exchange for other tools that Ret Paladins dont have
Healing reduction (Sharpen Blade and there is also an honor talent that allows your bladestorm to spread the healing reduction), spammable slow, charge, dot…
Ofc there are also things that Rets have that Arms doesnt but dont think I need to go over them
The dot still is considered as passive pressure and can also trigger Procs like the Oblivion Spear in S2 for example
You also say 60k as if it was nothing
I already explained that Arms is a hard hitting spec that can put out insanely strong crits (consistent 140k Warbreakers in PvE on a low CD with CD reduction that also hits for 30-70k in PvP)
Having such a strong dot thats also easily spreadable is just the icing to the cake
Maybe you should gear your Arms Warrior or if hes geared you should try other melee specs and compare their highest crits with those of your Arms Warrior
Playing Arms with such overpowered cooldowns like Warbreaker-Bladestorm and having their cooldowns also align perfectly feels like you are zerging through everything