Good day.
I guess you all seen the changes to frost mages this patch. Long story short is that Im all in for the flat % damage reduction on Frozen Orb. But to be honest the CDR change on Frozen Orb from 0.5 to 0.25 is a bit too much and let me explain why.
At this moment I would trade any % number flat dmg reduction to FO and Blizzard for them revert the CDR change. Ive tried a few keys (+0 to +18) and running Torghast both old version + the new gauntlet, solo mode in Zereth Mortis and Korthia - my point is that it doesn’t matter which type of content - this change feels super clunky.
Of course and Im NOT defending that frost did super well in PvE and mostly the M+ world. Some tuning were needed - but with this change it feels like Blizzard themselve watched the high end M+ pushers at the +26-30 key range and judged by those numbers that “hey maybe a CDR nerf is needed to Frozen Orb”. I must say this added a rock to each shoulder as a frost mage.
Small AoE or 2-3 target cleave feels very bad. First boss of Theater of Pain come to mind, example if the tank were able to hold them together for sure Blizzard did its job pre-nerf. I simply feel like I have a debuff on me that slows the Frozen Orb recharge.
Again a nerf I agree was needed to frost but in my honest opinion you missed the mark on what spell to nerf.
Few last words:
Do more numbers tuning to other spells if you think you need to but the CDR nerf to Frozen Orb wrecks the entire flow of the spec.
7 Likes
Agree entirely, it is a HUGE miss. They created this mess in 9.1.5 by removing the target cap on our AOE and in the process of trying to correct that have crippled our damage at low target counts and totally voided our niche. It disproportionately hurts those NOT doing the MDI style pulls more than it does the behaviour they were trying to correct!
- (Re)introduce target caps on Orb/Blizzard or even just target cap the Orb CDR from Blizzard and IP procs to 8 or 5 targets, w/e works.
- This kills 2 birds with 1 stone in that it reins in the multi-orb damage and also reduces the IV resets on huge packs.
- Revert the SI nerfs from 9.0 launch to strengthen our 2t cleave and give frost back it’s nice. I’m sure most would trade obscene high target count AOE for stronger low target count damage, especially for relevance in raids.
2 Likes
Instead of nerfing the aoe dmg, they killed it entirely.Now the spec just feels wrong when you play it and they are forcing us to go either arcane or fire.
@ Kompast
Yes they are doing a “fire nerf 9.1” ala frost now in 9.2.
I remember early / mid 9.0 they also nerfed Splitting Ice talent cleave damage so its been a nerf ever since. Okay a small Frostbolt damage increase later on but that’s a drop in the ocean compared to the CDR nerf to Frozen Orb.
My dissapointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
That is actual a good idea and I agree, revert CDR to 0.50 again but have a target cap with Frozen Orb to either 5 or 8 targets.
Ive played some more this morning and I can’t stand frost spec with this current nerf. Its awful, clunky and slow paced…
1 Like
this nerf feels the worst at 2-4 targets due to the massively reduced amount of freezing winds uses, and has gutted raid viability at least in SOD…
frost currently sitting at dead last on 9.2 logs, which is early CN levels of bad. not feeling hopeful for sepulcher either based on the bosses we have seen, and the tier set + 2nd leggo just not being enough
@ Faz and Glowie, Im glad to hear your thoughts and concern! The more speaking the better and I really hope this nerf gets either reverted or they tune the numbers in another perspective!
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Realistically I can’t see the spec going untouched in this state. It’s awful.
Like most Mages have noted. It’s less about the damage, it’s more about the lack of IV uptime and general feel of the spec.
Not fun anymore.
Is there gonna be any answer or any news from the staff regarding this issue ?
Ran through a spires 19 on frost today dreading it after all these comments. Didn’t seem too bad, just had to throw in a few extra blizzards. I was running nf and splitting ice and being a bit more conservative with IV and orb towards the ends of pulls but it really did feel ok. I wasn’t easily top of the meters like previous weeks but I held my own.
Don’t forget the new affix has a cdr built in too as well as the new tier set being great on aoe and helping the IV cdr. As for raid logs don’t worry about them right now, so much will change in the next few weeks and the nerfs barely touched ST dmg.
@ Minnji
I can see your point of view. But nerfing CDR to tune it for “only” a seasonal affix is in my opinion wrong and should’ve been fixed in a different way.
As mentioned above its the flow of the spec that feels clunky. Im glad if you don’t feel that way, all power to you! However I feel myself like I have to hold a giant rock through out the dungeons after this nerf.
I still believe that if they gave Frozen Orb a target cap with either 5 or 8 targets and reverted the CDR to 0.50 sec would definitely help us back. I wouldn’t mind more % flat dmg reduction to Blizzard / Frozen Orb either, I would simply trade anything to get the 0.50 back.
But you also do not have the full spec you are not playing with the tier set you also do not have 2 legendaries that the nerf is coming from.
you are judging a nerf without actually having the context of it as you judge based on the live game right now.
I totally understand that. But the tier set power is random proc. CDR nerf killed the flow of the frost spec. It just feels clunky. And to be honest, I think a random CS proc from tier set bonus wont make the spec “flow” again.
The Nerf killed freezing rain build and straight aoe dmg , splitting ice build shouldn’t be affected at all if not by little. Run freezing rain and you will see the difference, also 4 set piece isn’t gonna make a big difference cause its once every 20 sec and it won’t hit all the trash of the pull, so you can’t trust that . Doubt that frost is gonna be viable in competitive pushing m+.
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It’s over, they basically killed it again. This week it looks like loosing tons of damage in m+, while many other specs doing 25-30k on pulls.
Revert it to 0,50 cd reduction and maybe cap to 8 targets again.
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Despite what I said above…
I do believe with better gear, tier sets, CDR in M+ and borrowed powers we will be S-Tier for the remainder of the expansion.
Ye they killed the freezing rain build but it was op, it shouldn’t be viable on anything other than massive pulls, thats what its for. A target cap on orb wouldn’t matter, the strength of the dmg on big packs was having almost constant rune uptime and multiple orbs up. Frost was op before the great upcapping anyway.
I can see what your saying about the flow of it, it was all instant casts all the time but thats part of what made it op, it was to easy. At least now you have to plan a bit more and use your IV and orb more carefully.
Comet storm may be the go to on that talent row anyway soon.
Edit, forgot about the NF double leggo too! Thats gonna be insane! Just looked on subcreation and they are still running freezing rain in +30s.
This nerf hit lower keys more than higher imho. With big pulls I could and still can pop two orbs at the same time, but if pulls are lower then it feels bad, like our whole output double dips on tanks.
One Blizzard cast should have capped cdr on Frozen Orb, like max 30 seconds per one cast. That would smoothen things out without breaking the class in either way.
I whole heartedly agree.
The problem was massively large pulls causing unlimited Frozen Orbs, the result is a massive nerf to our go-to M+ Legendary for mid-tier players due to the reduction of the CDR. The reduction needs to be restored to .5 seconds, but with the old target cap of Blizzard being the ceiling how often it can proc for each time Blizzard deals damage.
I guess the change DOES make Night Fae a bit more interesting as it increases the value of Shifting Power for that Legendary, but it still doesn’t feel great.
Single target seems to be in a good place if you go with Slipping Ice (looking forward to trying that with the Unity Legendary and Venthyr).