Hey everyone, I would like to ask something about the Horde and Alliance.
During Garrosh hellscream, The Horde had Conscription and slavery and so on, today they have a council and I think that they do not do it anymore…
Alliance on the other hand, I know they had a conscription during twisting nether misson, and they Forced labor the Pandaren during mist of Pandaria.
Today, which side still work on slavery\conscription? None? Both?
Some goblins live in borderline slavery “bound” by contacts. In the alternative Dreanor I’m plenty sure Yrel’s faction have some orc slaves.
So, both side’s still practice slavery?
To certain degree. I would say they employ “modern” slavery. We don’t see many things behind the sceenes.
They did conscript people during the fourth war. Idk if they will be doing that in the future.
kinda new player, Fourth War? Bfa?
Aye, the fourth war is BfA.
More please
Well, With specific regards slavery and dodgy employment practices, neither side looks great.
Both Horde and Alliance made use of child forced labour during the Jade Forest quests in Pandaria, however we only see this right at the very start, and as the campaign goes on we see that the Pandaren working with Horde or Alliance are now volunteers who have actually joined the Horde/Alliance of their own free will.
Both Horde and Alliance have kept slaves in the past.
A few specifics include;
Blood Elves keeping Leper Gnome slaves in the downstairs of the Tailoring shop. With a Succubus overseer. The Leper Gnomes clearly don’t want to be there, as they are audibly weeping (It’s actually quite horrible, even if Leper Gnomes are terrible people) Thing is, we know the Blood Elves did this -before- they joined the Horde, or whether like the Darkspear, they had to give up some practices when they join. (Blood Elves don’t start off in the Horde, they effectively join at the end of their second zone, and Silvermoon has never had an update, so we don’t know if those slaves are still there)
Perhaps the most are the gladiator pits that both sides seemed to operate. Varian Wrynn was a slave gladiator for a time, as was Valeera Sanguinar (this is how they became friends) but perhaps the most famous example is of the wicked Lord Blackmoore of the Alliance, Aedelas Blackmoore, who was a violent drunkard who thought nothing of random acts of cruelty against the Orcs in Durnholde keep, of which he was commandant. One day whilst hunting, he finds the infant Orc, hidden by his parents, Durotan and Draka who were slain protecting the baby.
Blackmoore decided to name the child “Thrall” (Which literally means ‘Slave’), and had him trained from a young age to be a pit fighter slave Gladiator (He had a more nefarious purpose, but that is a different matter). As Thrall proved unbeaten in the gladiator matches and his skill grew, so did Blackmoore’s moral compass absolutely break down, a young peasant servant girl, Taretha Foxton had become like a human sister to Thrall, and their friendship was genuine. Perhaps he noticed this and wanted to break Thrall, or perhaps it was just because Taratha was pretty and he was drunk 90% of the time, but Blackmoore started to force himself on Taretha against her will, making her an unwilling concubine.
(See what I mean about this guy being absolutely vile?)
So yeah, one of the most famous Orc in the world’s name actually means ‘Slave’ and he only learned his true name, (Go’el) much later.
Alliance have used Penal Troopers, which are basically unpleasant criminals told “Fight or Die” I think, though we never see the Horde do so in game, I think it is likely that the Horde would use them as well. (We see the Alliance ones at Taurajo).
Both sides have used Conscription, which isn’t really slavery as such, I mean heck, a lot of the countries people come from in Europe on these forums will come from a country that practices Conscription to this very day, and most of them will have been conscripts in their lives. I don’t, but we did have it between 1939-1960.
The difference is that Conscripts might not -want- to go into the army, but they are paid, homed and clothed, so it is not classified anywhere like Slavery or Indentured Servitude, nor is it ‘Military as Punishment’ like Penal Troopers are.
It’s just like, I don’t know, you -Have- to go to school between a certain age, until a certain age. You might not want to, but you have to. Now imagine if you were getting paid to go to school?
So it is nowhere near a rights infringement, Conscripts have the same rights as Volunteer army recruits (as far as I am aware).
Hope that answers a few questions.
The Horde forced hundreds of Humans in Silverpine into undead Slavery, which i would argue is the very worst kind of Slavery. They did so again at Darkshore just 2 years ago.
Going back to Blackmoore as the example of Slavery in the Alliance is a bit far fetched. For 2 reasons:
thank you for all the information, tho i MUST disagree on something.
I am from a country where conscription is a Must.
By Forcing people, to a system where u must obey someone command’s, and if you dont, You will be thrown to a military jail which is like hell itself.
they give you food, “cloths”, true. but at what cost? the definition of slavery, is a human being who’s out of freewill about his life because of another human being. If you are led by fear and control outside of your will and forced to obey someone, then its slavery.
slave’s in the past, also were given food and cloth’s, does it mean they were not slaves?
I’ve read about it a lot, A lot, and I take it with me everywhere I go, even WoW.
People who do not live with conscription, will not know what it is.
before I was conscripted, I thought its a must and a great thing, now? I hate it with all my heart.
Speaking of far-fetched, becoming one of the Forsaken is not slavery. Slaves to whom? We have free will. We are not the Scourge.
Well if we’re going with that interpretation,
Then No, the Modern Horde does not have Slaves.
No, the Modern Horde does not use Penal troops.
No, the Modern Horde does not enforce conscription (because they can’t afford to according to the most recent lore.)
The Modern Alliance Does not use Slaves, it is a new King now.
The Modern Alliance Does not use Penal Troops, it is a new King now.
The Modern Alliance -Does- however Conscript Troops, as it was the same King.
Dangerous to look at it that way, as suddenly the Horde look a bit more enlightened than the Alliance especially given their new government structure of a Council as opposed to a Dynastic Absolute Monarchy.
Bit safer to look at it as both sides do dodgy stuff, rather than taking “Currently” as the standpoint, as currently the Horde look more Enlightened under the Council…
If you play the Silverpine questline there is absolutely NO room for interpretation there: Sylvanas did ENSLAVE hundreds of Humans into being Forsaken (not “constructs” like the raised soldiers in Battle for Lordaeron - actual Forsaken). No, they did NOT have free will at all. I am sorry if that hurts anybody’s feelings, but please go back and just play it again if you doubt it. You cannot interprete it in any other way.
Yes, Garrosh did not approve of this. He actually was pissed and tried to call Sylvanas out for it. But did he actually STOP it? Did he prevent it? No, he did not. The same way Terenas did not stop Blackmoore. I am fairly sure Terenas was not in favour of what Blackmoore did to Thrall - but he was either incapable of stopping it or (more likely) he did not care enough to REALLY bother. Which is pretty much the same situation Garrosh left these slaves in.
The same applies to Darkshore. There is absolutely no doubt the Horde enslaved spirits and fallen Sentinels there. The Horde player being at the forefront again, just like s/he was at Silverpine.
Again, sorry if this hurts your feelings, but the Horde are slavers. Especially the Horde PC is a Slaver. S/he just is. I do not think that asking Blizzard to make the Alliance look worse is really helping a Horde Druid or Paladin who was actively participating in Necromancy again and again. I would not feel any better about doing this just because somebody else did it, too.
You’re wrong.
Were the humans on Fenris Isle murdered? Yes.
Did these people ask to be raised? No.
Does that make them slaves? Also no.
Does it make Sylvanas a baddie? Maybe.
Do Forsaken have free will? Yes.
Garrosh doesn’t approve of Sylvanas raising fresh Forsaken at all, not because any of them are enslaved (which they aren’t).
Edit: As a Forsaken player, does the above murder and mayhem bother me? No, because Forsaken Master Race 
I put these scenarios in the bin of “Bad Blizzard Writing”.
Are we supposed to believe both factions just suddenly embraced child slavery out of nowhere, that the other side is packed full of psychopaths and slavers except when we play the faction?
I am amazed that the Alliance/Horde can be filled with so many evil and crazy people, but when I play the faction myself I just encounter good guys and heroes.
But meh, Blizzard have always been extremely bad at writing anything that’s not “Superhero good” or “Cartoon villain evil”.
more please?
It is joke
Killing them would have been fine however?
I mean that is the alternative. We’re shown that Undeath is a separate type of existence, we are also shown right from the start that Forsaken can and will rebel. You see it in one of the starting quests as a Forsaken, I mean that is the whole -point- of the Forsaken. They are the ones who rebelled against the Tyrant Arthas Menethil…
Is it nice? No. Is it Slavery? also No.
Actually if you play it on Horde, you will find the ones who agree to being raised -agree- to being raised, much as Lorash Sunbeam did. The ones who reject the offer of Undeath do indeed fight you. That happens. Sorry if that does not suit your narrative. How can people accept the possibility of Night Elf Death Knights, yet are so vehement that Night Elves would never become Undead. Do people forget that Death Knights are actually Undead?
And the Alliance use Penal Troops, and have committed War Crimes, oh, and they also kill children. You get a specific quest to kill children. Even the Horde doesn’t get that.
Why are you playing Alliance then? Pretty sure the Alliance player takes slaves, by pretty sure, I mean I am certain that they do because we see it in game.
Or…bizarre idea here, could it be that -both- factions do bad things?
Yes and no, The fact that both factions are OK with child slavery is a bit bizarre, but again, interestingly, the Alliance is the faction which has a history of being OK with it, hence Thrall.
People instantly leap to the “But that was the Alliance of Lordaeron, not the Grand Alliance!” Which is true and a point to be weighed, however these same people never go “Has the Horde Council done these things?”
No they do not. They always parade out the bad things previous iterations of the Horde have done, whilst never accepting the bad things previous iterations of the Alliance have done.
Can’t have it both ways…
A Valuable insight I am sure we are all glad you provided. Can you expand upon that a little?
Play BFA and you will know why.