The main source of welfare gear is the M+ cache

Community General Discussion
21

Come on, I’m gonna make a separate TF thread for you where you two can keep on schmoozing.

I have some ideas, but I never really meant this thread to be a “suggestion” thread, but if you are asking here it goes.

I like the PvP structure, so my first idea would be to basically copy it. That would mean let’s we have 3 brackets. +4/+7/+10. For a weekly chest you would need to qualify for those, so a +4 bracket would require you to complete every dungeon IN THE SEASON at least on a +4 level. Once you are there you would need to gather “M+ points” every week by simply running dungeons. Higher level dungeons would reward you with more points.

This is by no means a well thought out suggestions, just something that would be more in line with the effort-reward relation.

22

I guess you could say that raiding is exactly the same but I do enjoy that.

I think we have enough pro and anti TF threads going atm :laughing:

23

I don’t really see the connection. I’m pretty sure you can talk about either of those separately.

2 of your AA pieces come from the weekly chest. I guess this means that the chest is still less disappointing than mythic raiding?

24

Shes on 7/8 mythic and she works really hard for her gear.
All you want to do is turn mythic + into more of a grind to get a cache and i disagree with that .
Your idea is stupid sorry.

2 Likes
25

Try not to do one week the mythic + dungeon and see do you get anything from the weekly cache. Also do some lower mythic + dungeon one week as the highest one you do and than compare the loot you get in the weekly cache to the loot you got in it when you did higher keys. You will see than connection.

26

So out of all the times I’ve opened the box there are two I’m using. I’ve disenchanted the bulk of stuff I’ve received. So yes I’d say that is pretty disappointing. They aren’t even good stats, they are just high titanforges.

27

This character is a prime example of welfare gear… only done one Mythic (standard Siege) and way over geared for any content I now do; next to none of it is instanced.

28

The main source of Welfare gear is boosting, be it direct or indirect due to higher lvled players having interest in lower lvl content and not the M+ chest.

The M+ chest is just an added bonus, once a week with a huge chance to not be that good anyway and is rewarded by completing the highest relevant M+ level available.

However, let’s be honest here, M+10 is too easy for a 370 ilvl group, that even random average people are selling boosts for it, it’s become so easy that the prices for buying a +10 is ridiculously low.

It’s actually so easy that you don’t need to buy a boost, you can just push your own key with inflated power level players who probably don’t care about your performance and just that the key is done Which is the root of the problem.

I can literally gear a recently leveled 120 character enough to start doing m+ on their own in less than a day.

Open the queue for normal mythics and see the flood of people with insane ilvls joining, do so for M+ too, and some of them don’t even care about your current gear state, it takes 30-60 minutes on average to form a group of insanely higher ilvl than intended for a dungeon, that’s counting those who leave after seeing your gear.

Is a good idea though and I like it a lot, however it would be a " nuisance " because the M+ chest usually account for 1-3 pieces of your gear, and is only once a week, a good idea would be to shift some extra rewards in it and then implement the system you said.

1 Like
29

the opposite of “welfare” gear is gearing it higher end.

cant remember when was the last time I got a useful drop. and even when it happens (which is suuuuuper rare) its usually 1-5% upgrade.

splitting M+ further would probably fix this issue tho. and spread the items that “drop” and items you can get from cache.
on top of that add some sort of “selection” to cache where you pick stuff like stats and what piece you want. +all cache drops should be really high ilvl. 395 for +15s right now would be nice. with sockets and stats I choose.

30

I was banned on this forum for less then this… just saying.

Look at that! There is at least someone who gets it. The thread was worth it after all.

I agree. +10 is too easy. I’m not sure if 370 is too high for a +10 seeing how 370 is pretty much welfare gear nowadays, but 380 baseline with a chance for 385 AA is way too high, especially if you are only doing 1 run/week.

The state of boosting probably disgust me more than it is reflected in this thread. Seeing advertisements all over the place makes me lose faith in this game. On principle, I don’t have a problem with boost runs, but there is a limit to everything. If the amount of advertisements that are out there is any indication then half of the player base is heavily boosted at this point. And seeing people selling boost with sub 1k score is also a singe of this dire state.

I mean ofc the state of gearing is inflated as hell. You can buy a single +10 run for 100k, which for you get a chance to loot in the dungeon + a weekly chest with all its benefit.

1 Like
31

Handing out high iL gear to all & sundry is like giving someone a £1m sports car without showing them the subtleties of driving it.

Take my DK a few posts up… he may well have reasonable gear, but either DK’s in general or me (more than likely) as a player sure as heck don’t seem to get the best out of it.

I’m more likely to favour the latter…

1 Like
32

Do you ever think that you don’t play this game with just the ones like you, what is easy for you is not for someone else, +10 is still hard for a lot of the players. And this system which Ájmage did proposed would cause dissatisfaction and the uproar among the casual part of the community and would force players to grind even more mythic + dungeons than they do now. But good thing is that we have devs which know very well that this game is not only played by the most hardcore players , and that before changing or designing anything major in the game they need to think about the overall population of the players of the game.

1 Like
33

I’m not gonna pretend that I wouldn’t like to see this game shift just a little bit away from this casual-friendly, super accessible gameplay.

But let’s not confuse things here. The M+ chest is not a weekly bonus to everyone. At least it shouldn’t be.

As I said multiple times in this thread alone, as I see it the M+ chest should be there for those who commit to M+, just like the PvP chest is there for those who commit to PvP.

Yes, it isn’t really casual friendly. But you don’t see the casual PvP-ers having too much of a problem with their chest. Why is that? Because it never was an easy-to-get freebie.

And I don’t wanna sound “elitist”. When I say the chest is easy to get I don’t mean a +10 is easy for everyone. But qualifying for “A” weekly chest, for “ANY” chest is way too easy right now.

34

Your complaining about a system that gives gear. Gear have about zero effect on skill in this game. It’s just a means to an end, which people somehow feel obligated to do. Personally I’m happy gearing have become easy, it increases the possibilities that good players emerge for end game content were they whould normally just fade away one or a few tiers behind.

I remember the good old days when you had to farm old raids for months just to replace a few raiders in any team alt. steal members from other guilds. Also the issues about healers/tanks being totally unable to efficiently farm stuff(today that whould not be an issue, im just on a nostalgia trip). Let’s not go back to that era of a different sort of toxic gameplay.

Sure gears still a major driving point for some players. However having a larger playerbase able to participate are way better in the long run. Bad players won’t be able to do high end stuff just because they got some 380 piece in a chest.

Inflated ilvls are a issue, i won’t disagree about that, but the difference between a good player and a bad one will still be huge, be it trought DPS/HPS or mechanical playability. This won’t change because we make the mythic+ chest a harder matter to achieve. The only thing which it will cause are that generally good players, will have another milestone to reach each week.

3 Likes
35

I unequivocally disagree with this assertion.

Let’s see, can someone do a count, are there more threads on these forums about people conplaining about not being able to get into a group because of RIO? Or, more about “geez its too easy to get into a ‘mandatory’ m+ 10?”

I. myself, will never, out of principle, pay for a boost. I started late (mid season, because I hate leveling), so my RIO is mediocre (800ish). Even though I play a beloved healer class (resto druid), I have not got a single +10 invite!

Also, without a boost, its not like you can go a do a +10 mythic dungeon.

Maybe you have a guild or group of friends that would carry you, but try to "simply go do a quick and easy +10, with a random PiG from a basic starting welfare gear level of 340.

I hazard to say if you want to do a +10 you’ll:

  1. Need to be boosted (by friends or mercenaries)
  2. You’ll need to play a tank or healer
  3. You’ll need to wait ages in a queue regardless
  4. You’ll need boost your own key, form your own groups
  5. You’ll need to get used to disappointment
  6. You’ll need to learn the dungeons only (assuming you are a Legion keymaster, and know how affixes work).
    –now, assuming a lot of play time…
  7. Maybe a month later you can have a high enough RIO to actually get random invites.

Now, your situation might be different. Maybe you have a vibrant active guild or community and you can short cut some of these steps.

Lastly, on this topic, I agree, as someone who ran +15 in Legion for years, yes, once you build your street cred and knowledge, “max chest m+” runs are a relatively short time investment, for what you get. One chest, done for the week.

But, the points brought up in this thread are many, convoluting many issues. Lets this getting long, s going rapid fire to close:

  1. Welfare gear? +10? Elaborated above
  2. As mentioned by others, and experienced myself, on average, 80% of the time the “reward” is disenchanted.
  3. For you, as you claim, its too fast and easy, then whats the problem, do your one chest and go fish.
  4. Welfare gear in general, that is another topic thread.
  5. Pvp gearing issues, that is another topic thread.
  6. Titan Forging is another topic thread.
  7. How people define mandatory is another topic. Namely, for all the stuff mentioned above, I don’t see it as absolutely mandatory. For what? Something you likely won’t need? Something that is fast and easy for you?

I’m out.

1 Like
36

gear = power = ignore mechanics.

not really. it just mixes all sorts of players together where you need 3rd party websites to determine if someone’s good.

I know I’ve said this a lot but, you can do your own key and time it and do keys above +10 easily at this point.

37

Lets see, tried that.

Temple of Sethraliss, +9, say hello to necrotic and sanguine affixes in the room where you have to place the two runes in the skull??

Is that what you mean by “easy?”

The group was good, I thought we were going to +2 it, all 370+, a good tank, and three italian bloaks.

We ended up like 2-3 minutes over.

I guess we all define “easy” in different ways.

38

… = bored OP Raiders in LFR, making it hell for those who want to play it; most of the reason even n00bs like me CBA to do LFR any more.

EDIT:
Technically, my ‘player Main’ could do Normal Raids, but I wouldn’t inflict me on a Random Normal Dungeon, let alone a Raid.

1 Like
39

I don’t know what gear level you have or what content you are running, or lastly, what you mean by ignoring mechanics.

If you are telling me, you have such gear and power and can stand where ever you want, and not die without heals, then I must tip my hat to you my friend. I am guessing, you are so skilled, geared, and powerful you can do +10 dungeons, in time by yourself.

Impressive, you are a jedi.

40

He’s a Mythic Raider, so… close.