I have bashed the WF/TF and the welfare gearing system everywhere I could. So it is only fair if I give my love to one of the main offender, which is the M+ cache.
As of now if you are interested in doing any kind of challenging content in the game you are basically required to do a +10 key every week. Not because you like the dungeon and not because you need anything particular from that dungeon but to be able to stay on par with others.
Why can I say this about the M+ chest but not about the PvP one? Simply because the acquisition of the 2 chests heavily differs. You can only get the PvP chest if you commit a decent amount of time to PvP but you can get the M+ cache in about the same time you would cap the weekly IE quest. The M+ chest has become the main source of useful gear for many of us and has contributed to this inflated state of gearing we see everywhere.
My problem with this is 3 folded.
It pushed players to M+ who otherwise would not be interested in it. Think of PvP-ers, but also PvE-ers who would rather focus exclusively on raiding. But seeing how âeasyâ is to qualify for the chest you donât really have an opt-out anymore. You are basically required to do it, you like M+ or not. How many of us would play a single rated BG every week if it would be enough for the PvP chest? You donât even have to win it.
It inflates the state of gear progression. For a single run, you have a 40-60% chance for a 370+ item and you are guaranteed with a 380+ at the end of the week. But what even âworstâ than this are the Azerite Armors. Mythic raiding level AA pieces for a single weekly run. No wonder everyone is so frustrated with M+. You either get that +10 chest or you lose out on a huge opportunity.
Boosting.
To make it clear, Iâm not against the M+ cache, Iâm against the way we currently get it. As I see it, it should be more similar to the way you qualify for the PvP chest. Yes, that would mean that itâs harder to get, but it would also mean that it wouldnât be a âmust haveâ for everyone. And just like the PvP chest, it should reward a 385 baseline. If you commit to M+ you are rewarded, but it shouldnât be a mandatory side task for those who would rather focus on other aspects of the game.
And seeing the 8.1 changes this is just gonna be even worse. The way the currency works you either cap that weekly +10 as soon as you can or you gonna fall behind the curve no matter if you are a raider or a PvP-er.
tl:dr: A single M+ run every week shouldnât be enough for the M+ cache.
itâs a single item every week, and it encourages the players to do challenging content, sure for many players m10s are a piece of cake, but for the majority even mid lvl keys may be a challenge, at least it is a reward that encourages the players to push their limit on harder contentâŚ
among all the forms of âwelfareâ epic sources, I think the weekly chest is the least problematic, considering you can get a 370 for doing a warfront, the arathi boss, or 4 m0s. ( i personally got a 390 titanforged ring for doing the 4 M0s weekly quest -.- )
You know the day when the ones like asmongold and the Ăjmage will be happy and when they whey will stop asking for any changes is the day when only the no lifers who have a lot of time to spend hours in the game to reach the level of the top content will be in epic gear and everyone else who donât will be in the green.
Because why we casuals ( or plebs how they call us ) should ever get even 10-20 il of gear lower than them, since that is the bad game design and so out of the placeâŚ
I feel I have to do M+, I donât really enjoy it that much either. Each to their own but itâs just repeating dungeons over and over with some extras. I guess you could say that raiding is exactly the same but I do enjoy that.
We require all our raiders to do at least one +10 a week for the cache as itâs a good (possible) source of gear. But mostly weâre all just waiting for a big fat TF on something we can actually use. I call it the weekly chest of disappointment.
at the start of BfA I enjoyed pushing keys, mostly with premades and friends.
but then Bfa happened and they quit the game so atm Im just boosting keys or doing one run for weekly.
not really excited for it tho. too much RNG ruined entire gearing for me
stats
ilvl
sockets
TF
right slot
doubt ill ever be excited due to weekly cache due to how entire gearing turned into welfare system which is trying to keep everyone happy.
You could say the same thing about Warfronts. Doing the warfront with the quest grants a 370 piece of gear. Doing the same warfront over and over again grants a 340 piece of gear each time. Combine this with warforging and titanforging, a lower geared player can gear up easily without little to no effort.
But I long gave up on the Mythic+ cache as being anywhere a RELIABLE source of gear, because if you are raiding or doing active content, it most likely gives you something utterly, and entirely useless.
WF and TF in itself is not even a source of actual gear acquisition, but merely potluck. I donât really think it can be classified as âwelfare gearingâ. Now, thatâs not to say I agree the system is fine as is, I donât.
I just donât believe it should be scrapped altogether. The function and design behind these systems were to give the occasional player an upgrade higher than theyâd usually get. The community, in turn, made it their job to try and farm TF gear and thus it results in negativity because of the really low chances you have with it.
Then to top it off, you see some guy in LFR gear or even lower with your âBISâ piece fully Titanforged out - I understand it, but the chances are just next to none for it to happen in the first place.
Said before, I think a cap of +5 on Warforge, and +10 on Titanforge.
We have many threads about WF/TF. We also have many threads about the Warfront items. This one is about the M+ cache.
As I see it the current M+ reward system only favors 2 group of peoples:
Boosters
And people like me, who like M+ and most of the time fine with one run/week
On the other hand, it has too many drawbacks. You shouldnât feel forced to run even a singly M+ if you donât like it. Many high-end players I know are in this suit. They feel they have to do it for the easy gear, but they donât enjoy it anymore.
The current reward system I think also not fair for those players who try to climb the ladder. A single, depleted +10 shouldnât give better reward than letâs 10 +9s all timed.
You are right. If it would be up to me you could only get epics from raids, M+ or PvP, but this thread isnât about this.
Even if the m+ cache would be removed high end players would still feel the need to do them because doing mythic + dungeons helps them with the gearing process.
M + cache is okay in my opinion because it gives something to people who finished the hard dungeons even if they havenât finished them on time. Not everyone is lucky enough to have the set groups of premades for those dungeons and is not doing them with the people from the mythic guilds to end em most of the time on the timer. And the people who do end em on timer get more loot anyway.
I agree. If you need a specific trinket or weapon you do repeatedly run the same key over and over and over and over, preferably as high as you can get into.
This is pretty much the exact opposite of what Iâm trying to say.
By no means do I want the M+ chest gone. I think the M+ scene should receive the same love as the PvP does. M+ shouldnât be a side-show to support other activities. M+ has become the 3rd major pillar of the game, next to raiding and PvP.
The M+ cache should be there for those who commit to M+, just like the PvP chest is there for those who commit to PvP.
I also would like to see dedicated, seasonal titles and other rewards, like mounts for M+ players.
As of now, the M+ chest is basically a freebie to everyone no matter how invested you are in the M+ scene.
And once again, I absolutely donât want to remove the M+ chest. What I want is more love to players who mainly focus on M+ and a fairer reward structure. I donât think a single, depleted +10 should give better reward than a bunch of timed +8/+9s.
Never in this thread have I mentioned end-of-run chests. I would like to see a couple of changes in that regard too, but those are for another thread.
When it comes to the weekly M+ chest, what would you prefer?
Having a single, depleted +10 run on that week or have a bunch of timed +9 runs?
Someone who tries to climb the ladder might able to time every single dungeon on a given week but never get invited to a +10. While someone else depletes a +10 by a mile and feels he is done for that week. I wouldnât call this fair.
This does not promote effort/hard-work. No wonder why the boosting community is in such a vivid state.
You cant look separately on the weekly mythic + chests and the chest at the end of the mythic + runs when they are part of the same system. So when you talk about one you need to have in the mind the other to.
And if its true that there are people who finished many + 9 keys on time , and which are now geared probably in a really good gear, which arenât invited for the mythic + 10 key runs than the Blizzard will need to look at the mythic system more and see what can be done about it that the things like that would not be happening.
or simply make it possible to manually upgrade gear to be titanforged/warforged with certain âcurrencyâ. and disappointment will be gone with TF/WF but excitement when you get one of those will still be there.
M+ in general should be consistently made into what it should have been from the start: A facette of the endgame that is solely for people who want open end challenging PvE Content without a matchmaking, but donât want to waste hours and hours on fixed dates in raids each weak.
Making it an aspect of regular gearing up process, and devaluing heroics and m"0" on the fly, makes it feel mandatory and isnât good for the game and the community.
âLet us create timed, more difficult dungeons with affixes for trash and bosses, and make it (almost) mandatory to gear up for higher tier raids in an online communityâŚwhat could possibly go wrongâ
Hey then you should explain a better way, for example a character must collect 30 points per week to have a weekly. Each in time level gives 1 point. So finished in timer +10 =10 points. Deplete? 9 -8 points.
Numbers can be played with. But this is what you mean. By any means this kind of change will upset sole raiders, boost buyers⌠Will make happy only boosters for earning more.
Raids are exact same every week . M+ affix changes every week. You can see same affix set 2 times per season. Why would m+ is more dull than raid? I like both and do both ( dont have dedicated time for mythic raid , and pug heroic) , but raids are much more stable and dull.
