its a typo. 15.04.09*
what tone?
not sure about OP but welfare gear could easliy be fixed by 2 simple things.
that’s it, majority’s happy.
I agree on tf/wf but this thread isnt about that.
What he/she wants is to turn mythic + into more of a chore.
Gear from there has already been reduced if you recall when they changed the 1/2/3 chesting per saa.
I do agree btw the higher the key the better the reward .
I dont rly want to do for example 5 x10s per week just to get a cache.
Dont bring pvp aspect into PVE .
i wonder whos idea its was to say: " hey look guys, we had a major success with mythic+ in legion, lets keep it, the way it was with all the rng around it on other stuff, so the game actually feels like a real slotmachine! Ye thats a great idea, how can we make the game feel like a slotmachine of frustration, so our gear-driven subscribers hit rock bottom of depression with our game and only people playing the game for “fun” actually stay untill all the more advanced players are gone, so we actually dont have to design raids anymore!"
And the others like:" YE MAN lets make the game for warfronts and lfr pple!" loud applauding and a single tear running down activisions cheek in joy and extasy…
This thread went a little off the road overnight.
I read it properly the first time. So once again: I was banned on this forum for calling someone idea’s less than stupid. I have a thick enough skin to don’t really care, so consider this just as a heads up.
I’m pretty sure when you called the M+ chest a “chest of disappointment” you were mainly joking, so I called the rewards from mythic raiding an even bigger disappointment as a joke. No hard feelings.
So back to the topic. Namecalling aside, this isn’t a crusade against casual players.
I never for a moment had the illusion that this is gonna be a popular topic. In the end, I’m advocating for something that would mean less gear for a lot of players. Less gear not just for casuals, but also raiders who “abuse” this system. And I’m one of those raiders.
During Legion and this early BfA stage, we all get used to having a weekly chest. It almost became a simple fact of the game, that on every reset day you can open a chest. But if you look past the initial anger that you feel over me for trying to “take away” gear from the casuals and you ask the question: “is this a good and fair system?” you might gonna be able to see what I’m trying to talk about.
Yes, it feels good to have a chest for little to none effort, but it doesn’t help the game nor the M+ scene. The M+ chest should be there for the M+ players, just like the PvP chest is there for the PvP players.
I’m not against casuals. I’m against boosting and people who “abuse” this system by running only 1 dungeon/week. And once again, sometimes I’m one of them. In the end, the question is pretty simple:
Do you think someone deserves the best possible reward for depleting a single +10 key and doing nothing else?
Can you not rember the raid caches in wod and legion with mythic raid gear in which you used to get weekly for nothing ?
Why should we have to do X amount of dungeons per week to get a cache ?
PvP doesnt require you to have 1K plus score or to get a cache just a time needed .
No effort for a 10+ concidering most cant get into groups .
Yet again if you have a problem calling your ideas stupid and not you stop threating me with a ban as that is harrasment .
Mythic + atm is a chore.
The dungeons are bad
The trash is bad
The affixes are awful
And the amount of people that run them have dropped massively since legion.
The idea you bring up is really silly as it will make it even more of a chore.
And btw its been called chest of disapointment since WoD and not in jest because it is a massive let down.
There is plenty of hardcore mmos out there go play them.
Agreed.
The long-term progression and reward structure is probably what I miss from M+. I mean look at PvP, it takes a long time to climb the ladder and get the best rewards. It takes probably an even longer time for raiders.
M+ feels empty. You can literally get the best possible rewards on a freshly dinged alt by simply putting down 100k. After that, there isn’t much left in the M+ scene that could motivate a player.
Yes, yes play for the fun. True, but I found it harder and harder to justify why am I even trying to push beyond 10. Absolutely no rewards. No mounts, no titles, nada.
Even if you disagree with me to make the M+ chest more difficult to obtain, we can probably agree that if not that, then the game should put some form of reward before the “hardcore” players that they can chase. There isn’t any atm. You chase an arbitrary score made up by a third-party site. Blizzard has dropped the ball on M+ in BfA. What worked in Legion is heavily outdated by now.
The solution for that should be that Blizzard changes its stance regarding the boosting and to start actively monitoring who is doing it and banning the people who are selling the runs. Than the number of the people daring to do it would drastically drop out. And not in changing something what is working in a good way for a lot of people in the game, what is not broken doesn’t need to be fixed !
Ban them for what exactly ? If its for gold nothing they can do and havent been for 14 years now.
For me boosting is a way of PTW, someone getting carried, getting best achievements and the current gear in the game without any effort invested into the content from which did receive that, all for the gold in the game or the money outside of it.
Mythic + cant give titles mounts mog pets like CM used to its a totally different thing.
Top end players get that from raiding or pvp .
Your claim that 10s take no effort are laughable pugwise.
They are easy to do in well oiled groups but the commen player cant do them easy or gear easy through them .
You cant win in wow you can paye to progress thats it .
You wount win anything.
Personally I think it’s not welfare anymore, Legion M+ was much easier compared to BfA.
PuGing the weekly +10 is such a hurdle people for whom it would be “welfare” gear can’t or simply won’t bother to jump through all the hoops.
The people which got the curve in the game or best gear get an advantage over the players who don’t and can easier join the groups in PvE and perform better if they have a grasp about how their classes are working. So yeah obtaining those things by boosting is making unequal playing grounds in the game over the people which refuse to pay for such things due to moral reasons, the ones which are unable to pay the amount which the boosters demand or the ones which want to obtain all of that by playing the game normally and achieve something regularly.
I have said it once in this thread, but I don’t expect everyone to read evrything since there are a lot of comments already.
I don’t think a +10 is easy. What I’m trying to say is getting “A’” chest, “Any” chest is easy. All you need is to do a single run a week. You don’t even need to time it, just finish it.
Getting a weekly chest that is already at least WF for such a little effort is not in line with what I wanna see in this game.
OK, please permit me to correct you a bit on this part. The PvP chest can be construed in a way just as the m+ chest PLUS the island quest, and here is why. You consider that to get the pvp chest, you would need to make a continuous (weekly) commitment to pvp for a fairly long time, but unknown to most players that don’t really pvp, it isn’t so. This is what you actually need to do to get the highest reward you are capable of from it with the least amount of effort involved:
Step 1 - get to your highest rating you can reasonably get in one of the three brackets only - the one you do the best in. Let’s assume you are a 2400 level player, you will have to make an initial time investment to grind up your rating to 2400 when the season starts. You will do that anyway if you are a 2400 player, because you will want your title and mount.
Step 2 - Now that you are at 2400 in a single bracket, let’s say 3v3, make sure you have another bracket, preferably the RBG bracket, as low as possible. You can even join really bad teams on purpose and lose games on purpose, your goal is to have low mmr (matchmaking), to a point where the players you meet there are a joke compared to you in pvp (it wouldn’t be hard for that to happen if you are a 2400 player).
Step 3: every week, win one game in your high rated bracket (3v3, in our gladiator player’s case), and then go to the low bracket (RBG, in the same case) and win 1 game each day at 1200 mmr. Should be faceroll enough, similar to well geared pve players grinding out island expeditions.
All you need is 500 conquest points, and the daily RBG awards 150 (it has been buffed). Do it 3 days in a raw, and you are done (450 conquest from the 3 RBG wins, 50 from your one win in 3v3), you will receive the PvP chest based on your highest rating in a bracket where you won at least a single game (in your case, the 3v3), and your conquest cap can be filled up anywhere (1200 mmr rbg in this case).
While it is true that it is a littlebit more time intensive than the m+ chest, the difference between doing this as a pvp player and doing one m+10 and the island expedition weekly together as a pve player is practically 0. The initial time investment early in the season to grind your rating can be equated with the initial time investment made by pve players to learn the m+ dungeons in the first place. The only redeeming thing is that to actually reach 2400 or even 2100 in pvp, you would be part of a far more exclusive group of players already than to complete a m+10 in pve, there is actually a major difference there: m+10 is something attainable by a sizable group of players by their own means, and by anyone through legal boosting for gold, while 2400 rating cannot be bought and done in a legal way unless you are capable of playing at least around a 2k level on your own. 2400 rating also represents around the top 1.5% of arena players, and even 2100 (the duelist threshold, which awards 380 loot in the chest) represents between the top 3% and 5% of arena players at most, depending how long the season went on.
Allow me to also disabuse you of this notion, that this weekly pvp chest is some sort of love pvpers get: practically no committed pvp player likes the current system. What almost all want is to have the gear vendors back, to be able to grind out the currency and then get the items we want, at a steady, weekly progression, just as it was before Legion. I haven’t seen a single thread in the pvp forums here, on mmo-champion or on any forum whatsoever where a committed pvp player said “this system is good”.
I believe that what you propose could work well for mythic+, but not for pvp.
You are probably right when you say there are shortcuts to the PvP chest. I’m sure the players already figured out the way that requires the least game time to get that chest. Still, as a mainly PvE-er that system looks much well thought out. It isn’t just a “hop in, do one RBG, win or lose and get your chest”.
Here is my qoute from earlier:
I’m not trying to say that the PvP system is nothing but good. I’m fairly aware how most PvP-ers don’t like certain parts of it. But just because there are flaws in it that doesn’t mean that there are no good parts of it.
If you look at the PvP structure it is much more refined. And in-game ladder and scoring system, appropriate rewards, like dedicated titles and mounts. M+ lacks all of those.
But back to the topic. According to you the main difference is mostly the initial grind, where you actually prove that you belong in that bracket. That’s pretty much all I want. If you have to time every single dungeon on a +10 in the season to qualify for the +10 chest that would mean you cannot just boost an alt on its first week to a 10 chest.
I see a direct correlation between the vivid state of boosting and the way the M+ chest currently works. The M+ chest is easy to get and it favors the boosters the most.
I think I misread your comment then in that case, apologies.
I guess I could have phrased that more obviously. I apologize as well.
Let’s move on.
I agree with that, m+ needs a proper scoring system, and probably dedicated rewards. They used to have the challenge mode unique transmog, class limited. Dunno why ditch that and not make another mog for each season once you get a certain score or m+ rating, nor why not make an m+ rating in the first place.
I beg to differ, PvP player despise this system. Do a quick roundabout through the Arena forums and you will certainly see, people want the predictable vendor gearing from WoD back.
No, you misunderstood me. I think that exists for m+ players as well. You do need to learn the dungeons once, right? same as we have to grind up our rating. The difference is the exclusivity of the reward. To qualify for good rewards as a pvper (380 baseline) in the weekly chest, you need to be one of the top 3% to 5% at the bare minimum. That’s not the case for m+, where you can be average and still get top rewards, or even be a horrible player with a lot of gold.
Gearing is just part of the system. I think there are just a very few player who actually like this current gearing system in BfA no matter if it’s PvP, M+, WF or anything else. But this does not mean that there aren’t any good part of the whole PvP structure.
When I look at M+ I find it very difficult to motivate myself to push beyond +10. Simply because there is nothing out there. All we play for is an arbitrary score made up by a third-party website. Imagine a PvP system that would stop at around 1.8-2k rating. After that, nothing. No new brackets, no new titeles, mounts, chest, nothing.
This is pretty much the reason of my quarrel with the current M+ structure. Wouldn’t yall this a freebie? I mean you yourself said that even average and/or wealthy players can get this. We are talking about the highest possible reward in the M+ system. Why is it so easy just to buy it? Yes, you can also buy an 8/8 M Uldir, but that gonna cost you the house. A +10 is 100k. That’s no money for the best possible M+ chest.
The PvP system has achieved that only the top 3-5% of PvP-ers can get a 380+ chest, the M+ system fails in this regard.
When the best possible reward the game can offer is a joke that everyone can buy it doesn’t really help to motivate players who are committed in that area of the game. I like M+, seeing that the best chest is being sold like a common wh*** makes me sad.