30/10/2018 14:26Posted by
Tahra I just don't understand this design philosophy at all.
I agree with everything you said, except the part about world bosses.
Wiping on outdoor stuff with a group of strangers is not fun, so I think they're fine as they are now.
I have not seen that happen in BFA at all you must be unlucky i never wiped on a world boss before ever im not trying to me negative just its weird to me to hear it happen.
Well artists and compositors have done their job great. Otherwise we've got here lazy greedy snowstorm. I can see that greed in timegated content, which is an awesome combo with monthly subscription. Prolonging gameplay without making it at least systematic and entertaining (talking bout scaling in leveling and then gearing, cause wtf is this: ilvl 290, 350 - those never affect world mobs?), and ofcourse e-sport. Esport is profitable and attracts attention, we've got almost every battlenet game into esport, whatever next game they release, it's surely gonna have a championship during it's beta. So don't expect Mythic+ to ever go, rather expect Raid+ and Mythic Raid Invitational All Stars, oh and also Island Expedition Invitational. (it's not like I'm against esport, but their efforts into that just removed all fun from non-esport elements)
There are plenty suggestions here. Although I would like to add, that Wow as MMORPG needs more RP element, and by that I don't mean RP servers, I mean stuff like class/profs uniqueness: like stealth poisoning boss's potion as rogue/alchemist, sabotaging equipment as engineer/goblin, asking shammy to move rocks out of the way. Adding minigames into group content (like those statues in VotW).
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its not only world its everything in legion/bfa just thrown out rnd content without any depth without any discover potential everything gets served on silver plate in different dmg/health % difficulties.
wow isnt a mmorpg anymore since wod
30/10/2018 14:26Posted by
Tahra I agree with everything you said, except the part about world bosses.
Wiping on outdoor stuff with a group of strangers is not fun, so I think they're fine as they are now.
I'm not saying that they should be overly punishing wipe-fests equivalent to a hardcore raid boss. That's of course what raiding is for.
However, the current design is far from 'fine'.
I don't believe that joining a huge group and mowing down a 'boss' with absolutely no challenge, once a week, is conducive to engaging or acceptable content design.
A world boss should feel like an
epic encounter. It doesn't have to be the hardest thing in the world but it should pose a challenge, in addition to being exciting.
Scaling the boss to the number of people involved is the very
least they could do. I also don't believe that these encounters should be limited to once per week either. They should happen spontaneously, out of nowhere, multiple times per day in a number of different zones. It's things like this that make the world feel alive. Something that is sorely lacking as of present.
30/10/2018 13:56Posted by
Chockø Honestly... I think you're my soul mate <3 couldn't agree more.
There's so much opportunity missed in this game it's crazy. I've said for years why not a timewalking raid? Where it changes weekly. Would be stupidly easy to do with the scaling. All bosses could drop tokens, and a vendor you can buy missing pieces off.
Haha we must be! I was actually discussing this in another thread recently!
I was actually referring to scaled LFR raids for old content being utilised to add variety to the levelling experience but I absolutely agree with your idea too. A myriad of timewalking Raids would be amazing. All of this old content being left to rot, or used exclusively for people one shotting their way through them to hunt mounts is a total, utter waste of time.
Bring all these Raids back to life, cycle through one each week or give an option of several each week.
They absolutely shouldn't replace current Raids but having them provide the same ilevel rewards as Uldir LFR (or whatever the current LFR tier is) would be a huge step towards keeping all of this content relevant.
Well artists and compositors have done their job great. Otherwise we've got here lazy greedy snowstorm. I can see that greed in timegated content, which is an awesome combo with monthly subscription. Prolonging gameplay without making it at least systematic and entertaining (talking bout scaling in leveling and then gearing, cause wtf is this: ilvl 290, 350 - those never affect world mobs?), and ofcourse e-sport. Esport is profitable and attracts attention, we've got almost every battlenet game into esport, whatever next game they release, it's surely gonna have a championship during it's beta. So don't expect Mythic+ to ever go, rather expect Raid+ and Mythic Raid Invitational All Stars, oh and also Island Expedition Invitational. (it's not like I'm against esport, but their efforts into that just removed all fun from non-esport elements)
There are plenty suggestions here. Although I would like to add, that Wow as MMORPG needs more RP element, and by that I don't mean RP servers, I mean stuff like class/profs uniqueness: like stealth poisoning boss's potion as rogue/alchemist, sabotaging equipment as engineer/goblin, asking shammy to move rocks out of the way. Adding minigames into group content (like those statues in VotW).
wtf did you smoke? theres literally 0 timegate anymore theres no need for grind anymore or anywhere. its actually the opposite if you are not braindamaged nad have more than 2hours to play per week the content is absolutely meaningless after 2weeks.
On the other part with this wannabe esport i agree.
all that is left:
-m+ over 10 i couldnt care less i dont care about some score on 3rd party website when i paly mmorpg i play it for char progression.
-mythic raid. yes sadly dont have the time to raid 1-2 at set times every week but probably the only good content elft
-arena? yeah they gave arena the lfr treatement with bfa so everyoen and their aunt not only have 380+ ilvl no matter if they only do wq and m+5 and normal raids or play on highest difficulties, after 1month. No now ev en everyone gets best pvp awards thrown at them. and only to increase my rating statistic i cba to play a lot.
sorry but thsi game does the opposite of timegating.
I have tried every wow expansion and this is by far the one that got me bored the most.
whole uldir except mythic was actually literally useless to do after 2ids because you get items from 500million caches and weekly quests that are better every week. and 500dropps left and right.
arena useless after 1month since you have your season gladiator achiev.
m+ idk i felt like in legion i could do more until i didnt need gear from it anymore. now in bfa i didnt bother with more than weekly because geairng wise they were useless so fast.
14days left on sub and its so plain boring havent even bothered to log and/or do something last 15days.
Also there is 0 content in the open world ABOSLUTELITY 0. yes wod-legion already had 0 to do but legio natleast had some questchains like the one about illidan which were actually nice but bfa? wolrd is completly empty and no reason to discover.
yes it feels better to d iscover dun morogh for 500th time on vanilla pserver than whole new bfa world.
and raids? wtf just 1zerg fiesta determined by itemlvl absolutely boring no teven tiersets ?!
tldr: wannabe diablo online esports game rather than a mmorpg
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30/10/2018 14:26Posted by
Tahra ...
I agree with everything you said, except the part about world bosses.
Wiping on outdoor stuff with a group of strangers is not fun, so I think they're fine as they are now.
I have not seen that happen in BFA at all you must be unlucky i never wiped on a world boss before ever im not trying to me negative just its weird to me to hear it happen.
Oh no, it's not happened. My point is; if they're made a lot harder and a real threat even for a massive group, then you'd see wipes and such.
30/10/2018 15:00Posted by
Calek wtf did you smoke? theres literally 0 timegate anymore theres no need for grind anymore or anywhere. its actually the opposite if you are not braindamaged nad have more than 2hours to play per week the content is absolutely meaningless after 2weeks.
I actually had to farm rep for allied races for several weeks and mostly by waiting for the next day for new WQs to arrive. I now too farm exalted to get some exalted gear from vendor, and no, I don't find group to farm rep as I was doing it before, I wait for the next day for WQs to reset. Even if now there 0 timegate, I'm fairly certain they will add new ones.
A world boss should feel like an epic encounter. It doesn't have to be the hardest thing in the world but it should pose a challenge, in addition to being exciting.
The Argus greater invasion bosses come to mind with that kind of description.
Scaling the boss to the number of people involved is the very least they could do. I also don't believe that these encounters should be limited to once per week either. They should happen spontaneously, out of nowhere, multiple times per day in a number of different zones. It's things like this that make the world feel alive. Something that is sorely lacking as of present.
If they happened frequently their rewards would have to be toned down immensely, which in turn would make it so not many people would be interested in them. I think once a week with a nice reward is actually a good balance.
30/10/2018 15:09Posted by
Tahra Oh no, it's not happened. My point is; if they're made a lot harder and a real threat even for a massive group, then you'd see wipes and such.
There's a balance to be struck though, isn't there?
Part of the reason that so many players (myself included) feel so put off by Mythic + and Raids is that there's nowhere to actually practice challenging content without putting yourself in the firing line.
Everything in the world falls over. You go through the entire levelling experience like a walking demi-god. You plough through normal, heroic and mythic 0 dungeons without the slightest hint of resistance and then, all of a sudden, you're thrust into a world where the smallest mistakes are punished and people mercilessly hound you for making them.
This is a
huge problem and actually an entirely different subject to this one so I don't want to get too far off track.
Do I want to see World Bosses being so challenging that uncoordinated groups are getting repeatedly wiped?
No
Do I want to see World Bosses where the encounters are more than animated training dummy loot piñatas?
Yes
The developers in WoW have been lazy for a long time or someone high up has been holding them back.
I assume it's the latter but you never know. It's a shame really.
30/10/2018 15:16Posted by
Tahra The Argus greater invasion bosses come to mind with that kind of description.
Actually yes, that's the sort of difficulty level I'm talking about.
30/10/2018 15:16Posted by
Tahra If they happened frequently their rewards would have to be toned down immensely, which in turn would make it so not many people would be interested in them. I think once a week with a nice reward is actually a good balance.
The current gear reward system cannot co-exist with this feature, I agree. If Blizzard included a meaningful gear currency system however, this would be a perfect workaround.
I cannot express how much I agree with the OP's points. Also, the post about Blizzard's EULA? PRICELESS! Thank you for writing that!
For something to change, dev team must be completely refreshed (well maybe not visual guys) with new ppl with fresh ideas. Maybe next expansion should have smaller new area, less dungeons, easier or harder raids with less bosses.
What i would like to see are long, hard quest-lines with some rare loot as reward, so ppl finally could make their characters uniq (since what WoW is missing is your characters uniqueness). They could use whole world of WoW for those quests.
Basically i would gladly see that whole Azeroth matters.
Ohh and data mining should be forbidden.
You pointed the major problem out. I made a topic about this with some suggestions.
(when a paragraph is quoted, that the indicator that players gave some feedback that made me change the original starting post)
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624482777?page=1My main suggestion is to turn WoW a bit "upside down".
The game is a collection of linear and short minigames. Once you hit max level your progress path is too short and linear.
The true goal of the game is
a) Mythic raiding
b) competitive arena / rated bg
c) goldfarm and stockmarketin on auctions to hit goldcap
Everything else is a catchup mechanism for a) and b)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-YbmcLXIyI
As he called it the game is filled with ANTICONTENT.
World Quests should be a reason to go out.
But the way its designed is to IGNORE the rest of the world.
while i agree and the invasions may make a difference we shall see.
However for a RP'er they are a dream i mean Boralas is full of hidden wonders and areas that i and my alliance guild love.
MoP had the best version of world bosses imo. Typically all 4 were up at all times and actually required some level of teamwork in order to get the kill. Not to mention, they were designed with different difficulties. (Oon being much more difficult than sha for example). Think about how often sha was killed compared to oondasta. You needed a 40man raid and everyone had to know what they were doing. Now you just auto join a group afk for a few minutes and ta-da you got the kill. There is no interest anymore and as a result there is no feeling of satisfaction when you manage to get a kill.
I agree with pretty much everything else. I can't tell you the last time I did an island expedition...even the azerite power can't convince me to run one. Now i'm mainly logging in to complete an emissary and see if I can get into a pug HC Uldir. When I inevitably can't, I end up just logging off or leveling an alt.
Look at how Runescape deals with treasures chests. Mobs have a chance to drop 'clue scrolls' which sends you on a quest of varying difficulty to find the treasure. Why on earth don't you do something similar? Imagine the satisfaction of following some epic trail taking you all around Azeroth until you finally decipher where the treasure chest is.
i'll just leave this one here:
https://www.wowhead.com/item=1357/captain-sanders-treasure-map
i have done this quest before quests showed anything on the map. i loved to guess where the map points. one of the best memories i had in WF.
now the map simply shows where you have to go. meh.
treasure chests .. because when people find where they are, they'll post on the internet and then your "discovery" wont be a discovery any more. itll just be another quest. Their current duty is to give you something else to get currency from, which they do.
ill agree with you on rares to a point, but essentially theyre just a handy way to get more currency ingame. Itd be nice to have more of them as trainable pets for hunters but hey ho. Rares are just stronger mobs and that's what they've generally always been. Make them super extra special, people will just farm them. Id personally just make em give a large amount of xp for the first time you kill em.
the trouble with phasing is that you have to get to the right phase to do things and people will just tire of that ... you cant complete this quest for that achievement until you do this and that beforehand. Blizzard rightly moved away from that, as a lot of players got really pee'd off with it.
if you scaled world bosses, people would just attack it solo .. at least this way, you have to group up. Which, in an mmo, is pretty much the idea. though I do quite like the idea of make them have an effect on the area .. maybe they kill local quest givers etc. Something like that. Itd annoy people, but not so much that theyd whinge about it on the forums
All in all, these are all problems that were highlighted in beta and were completely ignored .. so this is your finished product. We all know bfa is pretty but essentially a vapid rehash of previous expansions. No good new ideas.
I stalk strangers in open world and when they lose me from sight I whisper to them like "I watch you, why you killed this harmless undead murderer??!!"
WoW open world has not been good since tbc ..
the open world is meant to be about exploring and finding things, but its hard to do that when being forced to follow a certain path around the map while completing quests.
i think removing quests would make exploring more enjoyable .. but equally make leveling more boring ...
keeping quests would make leveling better but make exploring less fun.
they need to find a happy medium, maybe abandon all quests but replace with it world quest system per each zone?
design puzzles and jumping areas in the open world??
make some areas .. like caves .. or mountain paths .. like labyrinths with hidden easter eggs or treasures throughout the areas.
right now wow is just water down garbage in every aspect but high mythic+ keys and mythic raids... and it is really killing the game, sure the areas look fantastic in BFA but there is no WOW factor to exploring when you visit most of the areas by following quests.
when i enter a cave i want to get lost ... when i climb a mountain i want to take a wrong turn and end up in a different place. blizzard have completely forgotten about these things.
instead the game is designed to rush people to max level so they can do 2 bits of content over and over again for items which offer no real point other than make you slightly stronger when you run the same content the next time ... there is no fun to that .. just farm and grind and farm again..