The pay to win boost must go

The only valid point for the boost is that it will bring more players on the short term. That’s it.

Sadly, people are not intelligent enough/too selfish to think beyond “I don’t have time” “I want to play TBC not Vanilla” “Don’t like don’t buy” “It does not influence you” and other stupidities.

Ok, so we can agree that bots will be able to farm gold more effectively with the boosts, right? That means they will be sitting on a lot of gold, which leads to the purchasing price of bought gold dropping (due to the massive increase in the supply of gold compared to demand). And when this gold buying becomes cheaper, more people will be willing to buy it (especially during the start of the expansion, which has been pointed out).

Then the bot-farmed gold will slowly but surely be injected into the economy which over time makes in-game gold be worth less (because there’s so much of it). A 1000g now will then eventually be worth 100g, then 10g and so on. When the worth of money (gold) goes down, it leads to inflation (price increases) because every money/gold is now worth less. Now you have to pay more gold for stuff on the AH compared to before. This situation might tempt even more people to buy gold illegitimately which makes matters even worse, which might prompt Blizzard to bring in the WoW token (we wouldn’t want that, would we).

With stuff on the AH selling for more gold, people can farm for their epic flying in a day through mining for example, since every pop now sells for 50g. And don’t forget people will abuse the boost to get transmute-alts for even more gold (yes, the boost becomes an indirect official way of buying gold). Obviously this breaks the original design on how the grind was supposed to be, and it cheapens the experience on getting the epic mount. You don’t have to worry about the costs of repairs anymore either, or any of the other gold sinks in the game designed to keep the economy in check. This sucks for those that liked having to ration their gold and be careful with their expenditures (an RPG-aspect).

I don’t think what the OP mentioned in your post is entirely correct. People do amass gold because they plan for the next patches/phases, the next expansion, or they need money for their alts or their guild. Also, believe it or not, but new players are entering the game all the time, and they are in need of gold. I also don’t think it’s fine that the initial gold sinks become trivialized due to the economic impacts of boost-botting.

1 Like

Yes we have allmost an identical view on how this could or dare I say will unfold.
Botting wil make this almost certain:

I described that as than boosting will make the goldmaking via bots running at its resonable maximum, so the demand will allways be coverd.
I am sure the person I talk to before is 100% aware of that secenario and knows that this can become a thing, but what Sorzza questioned is: How much gold do we really need ? And then i questioned how strong of an impact this will or can make.
I dont belive that having lesser cost for raiding, dailys and typical goldsinks like the mount and repvendors will be enough to counter the inflation that will happend naturally ( because the amout of gold goes up as in the original tbc) and the gold that comes from the gold selling industry. Will this be worse than what we have know ?
Ofc on a first thought like 100%, its kinda a no brainer in my book, but the starting question is: Will boosting make bots aka goldselling worse than now?
If everyone has more gold naturally is there a higher demand for it ? We need like median list of gold spending behaviour of players and what they buy for how much :smiley:
At this point i cant tell, there is something that is drawn to the obvious conclusion but i dont know.

Saying this is 100% resonable, but again if everyone has more gold how big will be the buyingpower ?

To conclued: Even tho iam leaning more to the scenario you describe i think that the question Sorzza asked is valid, its something we have to consider if we want wo answer this question correctly. How much weight both parts play is for me at this point hard to say.
Just a quick sidenote that we sometimes overlook:

We fokus alot on the goldselling but few on the goldbuying. Ofc there is not much we can do, like in general, but there is not a single threat that talks about goldbuyers, right ? :slight_smile: Because in the end, they are the root of the problem.
If someone would ask me what to do with them, this is my answer:

1 Like

At least the CM’s can laugh at their # kekw

Your post contradicts yourself if your saying it makes it easier for botters to make gold that will drive the price down for things also drives the irl price down for the gold due to less demand for buying gold and a larger supply.

Saying boosts will cause an increase in botting is ridiculous the boost won’t be free as far as we know if going by retail pricing it really makes it not worth the risk for the botters as they always risk a ban because in the end they exist to make them money not lose it the upfront cost just won’t be worth the risk to save few days botting a Fresh account I worked out that if using brd pickpocket for example you only make €10 profit buying a boost for €60 than leveling from level 1 with a bot going with 4 days played and it will actually be less €10 profit if you account the gold from leveling I have no idea how much because I don’t bot so in the end the boost is negligible for botters but good for actual players.

You should be posting about stopping botting and gold buying instead of concerning yourself with other players wanting to catch up to their friends or not be behind when switching a Server or post about microtranastions in general and this should be free one time boost although I’ll admit being free botters will use it but shouldn’t be an excuse for anything a better change would be to perma ban gold buyers

1 Like

yes also make gold untradeable so ppl will stop buying it for GDKP runs coz thats hella p2w

No, I said that the price (in irl money) for bought gold at first will be driven down → more people are willing to buy it + there are gold sinks at the beginning of the expansion (epic flying, BoE’s, 22 slot bags, consumables, professions) → more bought gold gets injected into the economy which causes inflation (the price for things will rise) → the demand for bought gold will now increase again (besides, earned gold from daily quests aren’t available until later on).

  1. There exists a method to get cheap accounts as well as cheaper paid boosts; it’s by buying South American accounts as those and the MTX-services there are much cheaper for us in richer countries.
  2. Blizzard has shown they’re bad at banning bots, so the risk probably isn’t very high.
  3. The risk of them getting banned is also lower because less people are out leveling in the world, which means there are less people to actually discover the bots and report on them.
  4. Even if a botter buys the more expensive version of the boost, it could still be profitable. As we’ve seen, Blizzard are bad at dealing with bots, and I think there are more drivers and dampeners on the demand for purchased gold than it might seem. The boost brings in more people to the game, which also have near 0 gold, and no professions, so they will be tempted to buy gold. Plus, the boost will bring in more people that has the mentality that it’s fine to buy stuff to the game with irl-money, so some of these wouldn’t mind buying gold either.
  5. Botters are rampant in Retail as well, which again shows that Blizzard are bad at dealing with bots, and that there is some demand for resources farmed by bots (even though Retail has a level boost and WoW tokens).
  6. A general point: I think there pretty much always will be demand for botted gold/resources simply because there will always be people that are willing to buy it with irl money instead of grinding it out in-game.

A lot of people have been posting about that for a long time already, long before the announcement of the paid boost. Blizzard is simply bad at enforcing their ToS. The boost is a rather big imminent change to the game, that’s why we’re discussing it so much right now. And just because you don’t mind microtransactions, doesn’t mean that a lot of other people don’t like it or that they’re uneasy with them getting into the game. Everyone here are free to voice their opinions, and I just happen to think that the botting issues and the paid level boost are interlinked.

As for the boost itself, I wouldn’t mind it if I could play on a server where it’s not allowed; in that case I would be happy that people and their friends are free to choose servers they can boost up and play together on. Indeed, the paid boost isn’t purely bad, I do see some positives with it. It’s also funny that Blizzard in their roundtable said that choices are important, and is a thing that makes the game great, yet they don’t give people the choice to play on a fresh server with a different rule set.

I said this on another post that only way I would be in favour of abolishing the boost would be a forced fresh start so everyone is equal footing so I would agree with you in this

I don’t think it is irrelevant because botters will use this method in order to bypass the high price set for Westerners; thus the 58 boost will lead to more bots.

Because the ban waves happen so rarely, that means the bots have enough time to profit while doing damage. And if they do get banned, they can get right back to it using the method mentioned above.

They do get reported, but are still too rarely getting banned. And if they do get banned they can easily get back to it now. Furthermore, there are still materials and spots in the old world (like Demonic Rune) that are in demand, which the bots can take over. As for Outland, I do wonder if the increase in bots as well as overpopulation (‘everyone’ getting pushed into Outland) will make farming there a nightmare.

So this is where boosters and anti-boosters might not be in full agreement. Remember that the paid boost is at least partially touted at casuals/players who don’t have as much time to invest into the game (if they had the time, leveling up wouldn’t be as much an issue), and I do think it’s reasonable to assume that a rather sizable portion of these people will quit the game after not long (when they see all the endgame grinds). Thus, negative elements (in the anti-boosters’ eyes) have been brought into the game that everyone (whether you’re anti or not) has to deal with, for a demographic that won’t stick around anyway. It is kinda selfish if one is fine with destroying the economy of a game one would rather not spend much time on playing, for the countless of players who enjoy the game regularly.

In a way, ‘casualizing’ the game is a win for casuals, but at a loss for all those people that spend far more time at the game. And this is how it breaks one of the core principles of the old school MMORPGs: everything you saw in-game back then was a result of having put in the time and effort. We gain new players, yes, but we simultaneously alienate and squeeze out a portion of the original playerbase.

This also touches on what I’ve alluded to in my previous post, that increasing the size of the playerbase, while good, isn’t purely good; it can damage the economy and make the game worse for the more hardcore (-original) playerbase, and due to economy/botting issues may lead to the implementation of the WoW-token (yet botting is still an issue in Retail).

So again, so far I think the only solution here is to have different servers, because; different strokes for different folks.

The amount of botters will not change as it’s a supply and demand issue if there are too many botters the price of gold is less and less demand hence less point to bot and while you disagree that blizzard bans botters the upfront cost for a 4 day lead time where it makes so little money is pointless to risk.

On your point talking about casual players you know the people that do not have alot of time to play. Casual players are in all walks of gameplay they make the biggest proportion of the game from people playing 1-2 hours a day on 10 alts to hardcore raiders which are somewhat casual as they mostly just raid log and only play a few hours a week.

Who are the non casuals? the people who can play 10 hours a day multiple hours on multiple characters they make up a very small proportion of the playerbase probably less than 1% they are not the ones making classic possible.

Time does not equal effort like classic you can be grandmaster with very little effort by afking in battlegrounds 10 hours every day the same person maybe cannot achieve 2k rating in arena without win trading or the person sitting in stockades paying 3g a run to get leveled up that person is also putting in little effort watching Netflix.

How do you know that a large proportion of boosters will quit the game compared to not having the boost at all? That’s right nobody has any idea you also get hardcore players burn out and quit the game shortly after release does that mean we should limit the amount of time you can be logged into a game? Who says players who get boosted to the start of tbc are not enjoying the game regularly. If you are alienated out of a game just because they paid to get a few levels while you start tbc fully geared and rich with botted gold is very hypocritical

2 Likes

Sorry.

I cant take anything that redneck says seriously.

The guy is a major hypocrite

On YouTube: A bit harsh and satirical take on the boost, but I liked it and had a laugh as well :smiley:

1 Like

I think it’s unlikely that the amount of botting won’t change whatsoever, after having introduced the boost. I think it’s more likely it will have an effect on it. You can’t say there won’t be demand for botted gold in the beginning of the expansion when gold sinks are in place. I’ve already explained previously how that eventually might lead to inflation which leads to more demand for gold, creating a vicious cycle.

The boost reduces the time it takes for a bot to become effective. Instead of spending several days grinding mobs to max level (and risk being spotted), they instead start off at 58, go directly into spots in the Old World, or, into TBC content and start farming nodes and grind mobs till 70. Let’s say Blizzard improved their detection, and bots could only last for 30 days before getting banned. Normally, 10 of those days would be spent leveling to become effective, meaning 20 days remain for botting gold. With the boost, you would shave that time down to ~3 days spent leveling, which means more days spent grinding gold before getting banned.

And, taking on my tinfoil hat here, then Blizzard maybe, just maybe, purposefully allows some botting to happen (they bring in sub money after all). does not ban gold buyers because they keep bots in business, and then uses the rampant botting to make leveling worse to justify unrestricted paid boosts (and WoW tokens) in order to extract more money from players.

As for your points about causals; those were the same points that was brought up back when Wrath of the Lich King was current, eventually leading to more and more ‘casualizing’ of retail (nerfed open world, heirlooms, dungeon finder etc.). It was ‘player adapting to the game’ vs. ‘the game adapting to the player’. Then we got WoW Classic because some people thought the current game was casualized too much; meanwhile we’re now getting a TBC re-release that is also being casualized now…?

Again, therefore I’m calling for two versions of WoW: one that is accessible (“casual”) with a cash shop, and one that has the hallmarks of old school-MMORPGs; less QoL-additions, less accessible, less convenient and without a cash shop.

“Pay to win”

What are you winning? A trip to the Dark Portal, 2 levels behind everyone else?

3 Likes

And why so? That he will use it if it will be in the game? People won’t self-handicap themselves if others aren’t. And he can’t quit the game and “has” to play it. The boost is one extra alt for profession cooldowns or alternative main/alt - if others can get it we will get it as well.

  • Instant access to BRD pick-pocket bot spot
  • One extra alt that quickly can start working on professions for profession cooldowns
  • Toon that can go to Outland and start bot-grinding mobs to then at appropriate level farm elementals or alike

And yes, for legit players without friends to drop gold and boosts on them it’s a crappy value:

  • no gold vs others having 10K+ gold
  • no good gear vs others in raid gear, often Naxx
  • no guild, no position - either roll meta-class and face overrepresentation or roll something else and look for low tier guild only…
  • random hatred in game if they see your boost gear
2 Likes

And people say “You don’t have to buy it, it doesn’t affect you.” :joy:

1 Like

Instant Level 58.
What’s the matter?
Cant you put the effort in to level 1-60?

Everyone can, i know i can. I did it few days ago. But not everyone wants to, because of PERSONAL REASONS.

Hipocrisy in those threads is going through the roof. Bots going unchecked, gdkp, not to mention websites where you can buy accounts, items, boosts, you name it. But nah, it’ll be fine, because, you know, even bots and boosters put in some effort, they had to lvl up too, so its fine folks!

-“Really?! Then i’d like to get some boost from a mage!”

-“Sure thing mate! One mage boost coming right up!”

-“Actually, i was thinking about using blizzard b…”

-“You mindless seal, You tourist, noob. That’s p2w! You ruin the game, the experience!”

-“OK, allright! Fine, i’ll guess i’ll do it with You then…”

-“Good choice my friend! That’s the right way to play Your game! Now give me your gold for service rendered, so i can sell it online later!”

Now, did YOU put some effort today in Your game?

3 Likes

I levelled to 60 without boosts so yeah