The Productivity Thread

Argent Dawn
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I think it’s a huge shame that Argent Dawn or at least elements of it appears to have cultivated the notion that “race one”-only guilds / events / communities is wrong or absurd or politically motivated for what ever reason lol?

If there’s a Dwarf festival going on, just make a dwarf and go check it out! If there’s a troll funeral for a cool troll hero who died in battle, make a troll and go check it out! Nothing wrong with baking up a real quick throwaway character you may or may not come back to another time.

And hell yea I wish there was a cool Dark Iron guild around, and I would absolutely invest into a Horde character if there was a sustained movement to create a roleplaying hub on Horde and get involved there - but it’s almost gotta be made out of thin air.

Stromgarde, Stormwind and Duskwood literally have 20 years of casual/social/murderhobo/north rp behind them, they are ‘solved’ roleplaying hubs. But can that be replicated or did these hubs just kind of materialise randomly back in the day, ebbing and flowing as the expansions wore on?

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Strom, at least from my PoV was a mix of two main things: accessibility and manifest destiny.

It is easily accessible and a great mid-way point between 3 major Alliance RP places, that are all conveniently also cities. But it also came about through collective will and desire of the people RPing in Stromgarde, who wanted to “officiate” it, as it were; from that point onwards you see its popularity and activity explode.

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I know it comes down to personal preferences but I always thought the Alliance aesthetics are generally a lot easier on the eyes in general compared to the Horde aesthetics which plays into things quite a bit.

It doesn’t help that until Undermine the various Horde races have sort of been left without anything new geared towards the Horde whereas the Alliance received not only Gilneas as a reclaimed region but a new world tree and a reclaimed Stromgarde in fairly rapid succession.

Midnight will probably mitigate the problem somewhat at least…but only where the Elves are concerned.

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Huh sounds familiar I’m sure I fought this kinda guild at somepoint :older_man:

My original point to this was more that I’d like to see things move away from discord-led activities. Because having to join 200 different discord serves just to find RP is Epsilon levels of absurdity. I miss the days when you could just roll in to Orgrimmar and the Valley was filled with randoms or even Silvermoon back before Legion was. But, as I said back then it was Void Elves being introduced that completely massacred I’d go as far as to say 80% of the Blood Elf community…

RP Should be natural shouldn’t be forced because you advertise in a discord but ofcourse, that’s just how the time has gone by. It’s a shame.

Orgrimmar is the Heart of the Horde and has been since Vanilla it has easily just the same amount of RP put into it from the original ye olde days. (Not that I was there for them I joined AD in Cata with the great merge from Sha’tar - Good ol’ days).

But, it has the history there. It has the cultural significance there.

It’s just people don’t want to be there anymore and I think it’s just the stain of what happened which as much as people want to try and claim affected them, it didn’t. That Caravan didn’t kill Orgrimmar it was dying before they even popped up. That was a brief stint that was flushed out and yet those same people who claim they was driven away back then…Where are they now? Still saying they’re being driven away :grimacing: idk man just seems like a cop out.

Personally though, I still role into Org I keep my group around Org to try and help keep activity and life to it so that people do have people to push up against.

I think another issue is that tavern RP is only fun for about 5 minutes but, I will say its the exact same you could get from a Market. It’s fun for the first time you go, the second time and then by the fifth you know what to expect and who’s going to be there.

I think it’s a case people are just not wanting to bother with hubs on Horde and it’s a damn shame all you can do is try.

A 100% it’s easier to RP out your classic fantasy JRR Tolkien vibes in Stormwind than it is to be the more monsterous race(s) on Horde even if we do have pretty handsome Elves.

Pretty much all of this.

I am super stoked and excited to see Quel’dorei and Thalassian Elves suddenly coming back to being “Sin’dorei” for the Elf expansion.

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25

Yeah I mean there is of course that too and it, imo, explains the 70:30/80:20 divide on the server. Its easier and much more palatable to look at Generic Fantasy Human People and Generic Fantasy Dwarves and Generic Fantasy High Elves and Generic Fantasy Wood Elves than it is to look at Blizzard’s take on Nativism, Orcs, Goblins and Undead. A lot of people I know don’t RP on Horde solely because they feel its incredibly aesthetically disjointed and irrational compared to Alliance. I don’t really have any rebutall to their comments either, even as someone who RPed on Horde for 5-6 years.

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Whether anyone is roleplaying in Orgrimmar depends on whether there are guilds passing through at the time and whether there are public events occurring elsewhere. Not many roleplayers, especially not casual ones, have the time or patience to stick around in a mostly empty hub all night in the hopes that someone else will come along.

Stromgarde, Stormwind, Boralus, Duskwood and so on have all attracted dedicated communities that have achieved the necessary critical mass of consistent, regularly available RP that then snowballed to a larger side as they drew more roleplayers, and I think that’s what Orgrimmar needs.
It needs a dedicated community and/or guild/s of roleplayers with characters primarily interested in the city of Orgrimmar and roleplaying in it, to the point where they can maintain a stable population of roleplayers almost every night that encourages casual roleplayers to engage with them and trigger the snowball effect, to the point where those casual roleplayers might stick around even on nights when the community and/or guilds aren’t present.

But who’s so inspired by the thought of roleplaying in Orgrimmar that they’re willing to devote this much time and energy to it, and are there enough of these people to make a revitalised Orgrimmar a reality?
Maybe if I was possessed by a really compelling concept, I’d give it a shot, but right now, I don’t have any character concepts that make the thought of lingering in Orgrimmar seem rewarding to me.

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No it doesn’t. I’m literally standing there right now and there’s people rping about doing their own thing in Valley of Honor.

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Right now, by my count, it’s two people of the same guild that happened to be passing through Orgrimmar tonight.

https://imgur.com/a/V4iAUVQ

Not saying that there are zero people roleplaying in Orgrimmar at all times, but I wouldn’t describe that density of RP as a hub.

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For me, I’d say two. One is Belf Mage rp that is centred more, well, exclusively Thalassian centred. Rommath is in charge kinda thing. I had a guild oh, over 10 or more years ago where we did this. Involved arcane learning, walking around SMC, with upkeep of magical items, monitoring of leylines in QT, while involving in world events. Events were held and walking around SMC we stopped, chatted, gossiped with others. Maybe on the next artisan night, when people are in SMC, I could do something similar, if people are interested.

Was fun, but over time I moved over to Tauren rp and noticed there was a lack of Tauren Druid rp (linked to Cenarions).

Which brings me to the second one, Druid rp on Horde. It’s difficult as Druid rp can be seen to be very Nelf focused, but I found it fun adapting themes to Tauren. It’s difficult with Trolls as it’s slightly different, but we also see Trolls in the Cenarions now too. There’s the Emerald Enclave in place to cater for some Druid rp as a starting point on Horde and then if numbers are reasonable, a Horde initiative could be done (in conjunction or offshoot of the EE).

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I am going to quote a very wise elf:

To avoid plagiarism, I’ll stop here, but thank you Felen for being the first to say my thoughts out loud.

There is nothing wrong with warband, cartel etc mixed guilds, but I would very much love to see more guilds focused on single race, faction (not just Horde and Alliance, but Kirin Tor, Argent Dawn, Syndicate, Legion etc, I know there are a few for some of these, I just wanted to say that by saying “factions” I mean more than the 2 player ones), but even class or trade etc.

To me this creates so many opportunities, like a goblin only group angered some elemental with their operation, now they have to go find some shaman to help them deal with that, or some tomb raiders had a member cursed by some voodoo that makes them speak backwards and now they have to find a troll to help them get rid of it etc. This pushes guilds and individuals to make contatcts with others outside their group, make friendships and maybe even do some ooc planning so that they will both be returning from their campaigns in the same week so they can meet up in some hub for social rp and exchange stories and experiences.

Also if your guild can’t make everything, it actually gives reason to attend markets to buy supplies you actually need for your next adventure or create rp that lasts past the individual market, if you don’t find what you need, but contract one of the vendors to provide it for you later etc.

I know that some themes are too small, like nightborne or herbalism only probably wouldn’t have the population, but many other do. If there is a racial themed event, even if everybody is allowed, I always find it better to attend on a throwaway alt of that race, some of the alts after having fun with them stop being throwaway. Just try something new when the opportunity arises.

However there being discords for everything is just stupid. Those discords often aren’t advertised anywhere, creating a massive barrier to entry for new and returning roleplayers, or people who simply aren’t in the know. If there are guilds advertised in there, if the mods dont actively check them, you have no idea which are actually active. Same goes for AA, guilds are listed as active and recruiting, only for you to find out they are not recruiting atm when you reach out, others are listed as active, and when you try to ask anyway, turns out they are “always recruiting” and many are listed as active even when they no longer are. It’s like the in game guild finder listing guild that have been inactive for years. The forums with their automated 30 days system are perfect solution, also being official Blizzard platform with (rumours have it) some moderation, you dont have to register, create additional account or download another app, comes up first on google, and when people don’t go out of their way to derail guild threads, it just works.

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I just want to chime in with regards to Nightborne - I think it can work, there was a great NB guild we ran into in the past in the Nelf guild I’m part of, as atagonists and then tentative allies for that story arc. I… want to say ‘Duskwatch’? They were primarily saber mounted military of all flavours, it was great.

But yeah, absolutely agree on the ten-million/community discords ;_; My brain can’t keep up with all that, please…

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You’re referring to the Duskwatch Outriders, I miss my man Styrros hopefully he’s moved on to greater parts of life. :saluting_face:

He was a good friend and Felen still has his Nightsaber that Styrros gave to him when they was close battle buddies and named it Styrry :rofl:

100% agree I think a lot of the Sub-factions have fallen into niche obsoletes outside of the Ardent Pursuit and Argent Compass you will rarely if ever see anything alongside classes or different sub factions.

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It’s funny because you’d think that with all those discords people should have a much easier time doing this:

And I agree that the server has a big problem with a complete homogenisation of concepts, even the most simple ones. I like the idea of having a guild that’s just a bunch of researchers, or craftsmen or whoever else because that does encourage interaction with other groups/communities as Labyssra says.

You have your mercenary guilds with five guys who hack at things with a sword but also a cook, an accountant, a guy to wash their mounts and a smith who makes their swords. Or guard guilds in Stormwind that accept pretty much every character concept under the sun. Do we really need lightforged draenei vindicators or demon hunters acting as guards in stormwind?

I feel like it’s more or less the same problem as the events we talked about and something I mentioned re guilds before. Leaders who are afraid of ‘failure’ because their guild won’t have 10+ numbers so they sacrifice immersion and cohesion for the sake of attacting as many people as possible.

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Yesss, I miss the Outriders. Suitably smug and superior, 10/10, would get cavalry charged and nearly killed by again :joy:

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I am currently very seriously considering starting a guild, or if somebody else gets there before me, offer my assistance with it.

A marauding, loosely Horde tied paramilitary raider guild. Think of a robber baron guild but on Horde.

The concept would be that the guild consists of individuals that have become disillusioned with the current leadership of the Horde, and actively raid, pillage, ransom and skirmish with Alliance targets around Azeroth. While the guild would (initially) insist it’s doing what it’s doing for the best interest of Horde, it’s members also use the said claim to justify things like raiding civilian settlements for resources, ransoming high value enemy targets and getting access to resources like gold and artifacts to pursue the individuals’ own needs, nefarious or not, in the long run.

The guild would be ideal for both people that find current action against the Alliance insufficient, as well as people that want to masquerade as wanting to extreme things for the Horde but in reality serve to justify their own nefarious ends.

The concept would even have room to grow into a completely separate bandit and/or outlaw guild that actually turns hostile even to Horde members and guilds.

The main goals of this guild would be to offer rp-pvp and conflict rp to the members in abundance, mainly from the Alliance side (and neutrals) at the start but eventually maybe from Horde as well. Double the enemies, double the fun! It also would offer a spot for characters that have their own, very specific code of honor or morality, but one that doesn’t have qualms about getting their hands dirty. And all this without needing to sell your soul to the demons, void or any other villainous voice.

As said, the guild would be paramilitary, with no uniform policy and thd individual at the core. Whether you are a disgruntled orc who is consumed by vengeance, a dark sorcerer looking to gain access to resources you are normally barred from, or just a highwayman with a taste for the luxury and no qualms about how to get it, you all fit in the concept.

That being said, I do have a fairly specific aesthetic for this plan, but it’s not set in stone. First, it would be for Horde races only. Pandaren and Dracthyr are permitted as well, if their story fits the theme.

Second, I want the races to be mostly tribal races of the Horde + gobbos, because I want to capture somewhat of a pseudo mongrel horde feel to it. Belf and Forsaken characters might be welcome if they fit the guild concept.

The guild would also make a wide use of disguises, masks and ither items to hide or obscure their true identities when necessary, such as when liberating some Horde assets of their resources… for better use, of course.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that, as mentioned, this would be a guild that puts the individual into the focus. And I mean it. Does your character have some unsettled grudges with someone or somebody? We’ll help you try and even the score. Do you want to achieve power overwhelming and be a girlboss? Yep, we’ll help you drink the koolaid. Do you just want to bring about a land of the truly free? Yes senator armstrong, we’re your henchmen.

This would very much operate on the basis of band of brothers and sisters. You scratch the back of others, they’ll do the same for you. The strongest bonds are forged in battle. And, since you have dug your grave so deep already, we might as well keep going!

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hey that’s actually a pretty cool idea, best of luck with it

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My response to this and personal opinion is that warbands are the Horde’s military units. This is mostly a vibes-based thing, but look back at the Battle for Azeroth trailer. The Alliance are uniform, regimented, in formation, barking commands. This sort of discipline isn’t what we see from the Horde, instead we see a swarm of individually powerful warriors charging forward to seize honour, glory and victory by accomplishing great deeds in the heat of battle.

There are racial exceptions to this as this is mostly a Kalimdor Horde thing, but in my eyes, the fantasy of the Horde doesn’t involve traditional military discipline or uniformity. They’re warriors, not soldiers. So I’d say that your warband guild already serves as a military guild.

Genuinely great idea that fills a niche that doesn’t currently exist. I’ll confess that I’ve had my own idea for a guild bouncing around in my head, one that is very similar to your concept but strongly opposed to it at the same time.

On one hand, it would be a paramilitary warband that values individuality with no need for uniforms, much like what you suggest. It would be based in Kalimdor and focus primarily on the races associated with Kalimdor - orcs, trolls, tauren and goblins.
On the other hand, it would revolve around serving the current leadership of the Horde and finding a balance between protecting the interests of the Horde and adhering to the ideals of the council, with lots of difficult decisions to make and moral conundrums to wrestle with.
From trying to defend settlements in Ashenvale from night elven aggression while being unable to retaliate without facing repercussions, to dealing with young radicals who have come of age, resent their forebears for their sins and rail against the very existence of the Horde, to taking a stand against bitter warmongers who would see the Horde return to its bad old ways.
I’ve always believed that the current situation of the Horde has a lot of potential, with lots of room for conflict and dilemmas as it tries to move on from a dark past towards a brighter future, and this would put me in a position to act on that belief and see if I can practise what I preach.

But I’ve struggled with getting back into RP in recent months, I’m fully aware of my own failings as a creative and doubt that I could keep such a guild running for more than a couple of months, and warband RP is already oversaturated, as has been noted in this thread. Due to all of that, I’m not confident about going ahead with my idea and so it remains a pipe dream.

But I fully encourage you to go ahead and make this guild a reality. Like Rotwild said, running a guild can be a lot more forgiving than people assume, especially if the guild has officers and members who are willing to pull a lot of the weight.

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38

Apologies if someone’s already said this, but in regards to the Darkspear memorial the other day, I feel the need to mention the Organisers made specific - IC - encouragement for all Troll tribes and Horde members to attend. (It was a wonderful and thematic event, btw. Huge kudos to the organizers.)

Taken from their AA page:

“When the light of the White Moon is at it’s lowest point, the Darkspear remember those that fell in the last moon cycle. This time, they are inviting the Horde to join in, even if they’re only curious to see what the Trolls are doing.”

Unless I’m mistaken (and I don’t want to speak for the organizers here), it was a genuine invitation for the wider Horde to witness and partake in their rituals? I think we’re picking a fight where one doesn’t exist in that particular example.
As for other events that are designed to be race-specific? Yeah, fair enough. I can see the argument there.

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Well we used to have a good one but SOMEONE decided to get bored and disband and disappear.

Anyways what I want to see is a guild that does not rely heavily on rolls and d20 character sheets for their events and isn’t afraid to deny access to certain races or classes out of fear of dying or a lack of interest. I would like to see traditional WC3-coded concepts in the focus again and less attention paid to zaney RP inspired by recent Blizzard writing and/or the aesthetic I can only refer to as “tumblr and Ao3 hobbyists grown up and given positions of influence.” It’s not something I enjoy seeing and it really pulls me out of character when I see Grimrog the Abated interact with Shilaenyeth “Sheila/Sheils” Mildewscale who sounds an awful lot like a contemporary Californian youth.

Besides that and more specifically, I would love to see more interesting “evil” RP that goes beyond the surface level concepts of “we’re scourge or void or Legion” and explores the reasons and history of what these characters are doing and why.

For years now I’ve wanted to create a guild focused around a group of survivalist outlaw Westfall natives who in the wake of the drought and all the Defias exploitation and abandonment by the Alliance in the years after the Fourth War form their own community and assume the perverse mantle of law in the region whilst doing anything it takes to thrive.

For more higher fantasy concepts, maybe a guild that caters to all these DH/Illidari RPers who seem to have nothing better to do than hanging out in Stormwind.

What I also want to see is young, inexperienced characters embarking on their own journeys in this post-adventurer age, spurred on by heroic tales of the heroes who fought the Legion back, who waged war against the Lich King, who had lived in a constant state of aggression for three decades.

And so on and so on.

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40

Have I got a deal for you…

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