Hello forum. I write again about a question of personal matter. What do you think is the status of the magisters in Thalassian society nowadays? How important are they from a political view point? I like to think they are very powerful.
I think they are very important given that their leader is part of the governing triumvirate of Silvermoon, alongside the Farstriders. Iâm not sure how accurate this is at all - I look at Magisters as being like members of parliament, or ministers, in that they have sway over political and civil matters and come in various ranks of power, but ultimately answer to the Grand Magister and especially the Regent Lord. Somebody probably has a more accurate answer though and Iâm eager to learn how important they are in Thalassian society, too.
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doubt their very important their leader is a joke character that donât get any spotlight and used to be kealâthalas henchman until he saw which way the wind was blowing in fact rommath was suppose to be a traitor in cata
unless your the regent lord or the matron of the blood knights you donât matter
I guess itâs somewhere around these lines:
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I remember that questline.
Perhaps basket weaving may prove more suitable for yourâŚtalents.
Itâs downright cruel!
Either way, to answer the OP, I am not too sure on how exactly the political system works in QuelâThalas. We know the Magisters and the Farstriders are political factions (as well as other things) and they are parts of the Blood Elven government. How that works in detail, or how much influence each actually exerts is down to anyoneâs guess, both are prominent, the Magisters more so than the Farstriders in charge of the defence, though ultimately the Regent Lord seems to hold most of the executive power.
This is a stark difference from QuelâThalasâ original power structure, where the government of the kingdom was mostly handled by seven great elven lords, with the Sunstrider dynasty holding the most sway as befit their kingship.
However as Lorthanis mentioned they do have sway in civil matters, some of them appear to be in charge of some towns akin to magistrates or governors, others watch over Arcane Sanctums and some simply act as mages in-game.
Basically they cover a lot of things! Which is to be expected, seeing how badly the previous elven governmental bodies were dismantled, along with the massive losses of population.
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Magisters are a big deal. This is not the same as âMagesâ. Magister is a title that not every spellchucker can have, same as not every bowslinger is a Farstrider. They are both actual political positions as well as just job vocations.
The Traditional role of the head of -all- Military forces is Ranger-General. So forget about Farstrider ranks for now, Ranger-General is the head of the military, they historically have all been Rangers (Though not Farstriders, that order is 500 years old) but there is not, in current lore, any reason why the Ranger-General has to actually, well, be a Ranger. That Rank -predated- the Farstriders by more than a thousand years.
So you straight away have two powerful political bodies, in the Magisters (who are political but also military), and the Farstriders (Who are military but also political).
As pointed out, Silvermoon -used- to be run by Nobles. That ship has sailed, whilst some may have some residual power, that is down to tradition and personal wealth. Being a âNobleâ in Silvermoon will get you a cup of tea in a tavern.
If you also have the price of a cup of tea in your wallet.
Nobles are indulged, they are no longer the power in the state.
It would be easy to say that the Blood Knights neatly slipped into making up the Triumvirate of Power, and they -kind- of have, but not completely. The Blood Knights remember, are -military- therefore the Ranger General is in charge of them. He happens to be a Farstrider. That does not mean the Farstriders are in charge, just that he happens to be a Farstrider.
The Tirumvirate of power in Silvermoon is Ranger-General Brightwing, as its Military head, who can force military policy through (as he does during the attack on Zulâaman) and Grand Magister Rommath, who can force magical/political policy through (As he does regarding the Void Elves and their Exile.
Above both is the Regent Lord. He -also- happens to be a Farstrider, and very much thinks of himself as a Farstrider, but was appointed on his merits, not -because- he was a Farstrider.
Lady Liadrin does not figure into that Triumvirate, though it would be foolish (and unlikely) that her counsel would be ignored.
The Blood Knights are however, an incredibly important asset to Silvermoonâs military, that were aided in their formation by Rommath himself, so Magister support. The Farstriders were rather famously unimpressed by the Blood Knights methods, hence the rivalry that -used- to exist.
Since then, times have changed again. Lady Liadrin has really stepped up, but is no on the triumvirate, Rommath and Halduron are the counters to each other, with Lorâthemar the ultimate ruler.
Magisters are incredibly important. There are doubtlessly internal ranks, that we donât really see, but even as someone who is a low ranking Magister, that is a really big deal. Thatâs like, a bigger deal than being a Noble hanging onto past glories. Nobles have their place now, which is as living relics of past times to be humoured and indulged, but they are no longer involved at all in the decisions of the nation.
Iâm trying to think of a way of describing what a Magister is, using a Real life example, then realised that is pointless because weâre from all over the EU and beyond, and so what applies in one place does not in another.
They are people worthy of respect, they belong to a power bloc that is a major player in Thalassian state decisions, Their boss is one of the Triumvirate, it is a political position of note, and sometimes a military one. We do not know the exact ranks, we only know of Magisters and the Grand Magister, but there must almost certainly be other steps within it, given that both Farstriders and Blood Knights have varying steps within those two orders.
Youâre probably looking at a Ranger-Captain in the Farstriders being as important as a Knight-Lord in the Blood Knights, as a high ranking Magister in the Magister order. Theyâre all kind of equal status, even if the Blood Knights donât make up part of the Triumvirate.
A low ranking Magister trying to tell a Ranger-Captain what to do will likely get a slap and âBack in your place, Mageling!â likewise a lowly Ranger trying to tell a Knight-Lord what to do would get short shrift, and a low ranking Farstrider and Blood Knight Apprentice trying to tell a Magister what to do would get âYou realise I could atomise you both where you stand, right?â
TL:DR?
-Magisters- are a very big deal.
-Mages- not really.
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Rommath being always at the Side of Lorâthemar stroke me like I thought he was the second most powerful man in the kingdom.
Which is funny, considering that in some places in-game Magisters act as low-level magic workers, doing the most menial of tasks.
In Orgrimmar, itâs one of those occasions where they stand around and keep portals open for the peons, 24/7, every day of every week.
Always thought it was incredibly humbling for a Magister, and something they would have delegated to lower class conjurers in Silvermoon.
âŚ
how is it a personal matter ?
True, but so is Ranger General Brightwing, hence it being more a Triumvirate, although thinking of it, I might have used the wrong term there, as it isnât really a Triumvirate, because there three people share power, whereas Lorâthemar is the sole ruler in the case of Silvermoon.
We also know that both Halduron and Rommath have immense power within their fields and have no qualms telling Lorâthemar when he is wrong over a matter. He doesnât -have- to listen, but he generally does.
Lets be fair, this is true of just about anything in game, and in many cases is due to levelling. I mean how come you can at level 20 beat up an Elwynn Murloc with one shot, but a Murloc from Northrend will kick your behind, and one from Nazjatar would just -annihilate- you. (Obviously I know it is because of levels), the same is true of just about any super duper power unit in the setting, you always get some of them doing menial work, but lets face it, given the things the âChampion of Azerothâ occasionally gets asked to do, this is perhaps not surprising!
Portals are an interesting one however, and potentially a special case. A lot of this is Headcanon, but I think it makes pretty good sense. For a start, two mages keeping a portal open in perpetuity is just ridiculous, they physically could not do it, because like you say, it would be 24/7.
Going by a human being as baseline, it would be impossible for those mages to be alive. After just 72 hours without sleep, people have difficulty focussing on simple things like remembering the alphabet, or making a cup of tea, their cognitive functions are shot, and complicated tasks (Like using your mind to translocate one thing to somewhere else on the planet without ripping apart their cellular structure) are plain impossible.
So how -could- it work. The really pragmatic way that I can see it working is like this. They work shifts. You just happen to only ever see the same one on their shift before a colleague takes over, after a brief period of disconnection and reconnection, hey presto, the Portal is back. The original mage clocks off for the day, grabs some food, maybe hits the bars, gets some decent sleep and is back the next day to resume their duties.
Now the reason I say âgrabs some foodâ as a specific is more complex than âWell, everybody has to eatâ But the thing is, I imagine that you canât eat and cast magic at the same time (Actually the game mechanics are pretty clear on the subject, one interrupts the other! 
), but seriously, I donât imagine you could eat, whilst keeping a portal open.
See I wouldnât see being a Portals Magister as being a Humbling position, a difficult one, which needed certain qualities with regards power, knowledge and concentration, yes, Humbling no.
Consider this:
Weâre talking about using the scientific and geographic knowledge of how the world works, to transport something or someone from one place in the world, to another place in the world, without accident or mishap, NOt everyone has the skillset to be able to do this job, which takes a lot of learning, It is intensely difficult work needing concentration, and that is why generally two of you are there in case one has a mishap, or just dies of natural causes, once on duty that duty takes a good few hours, so you have to be as âin shapeâ as possible, and always on your âA-Gameâ when you are, because if you mess up, Expensive cargo is lost, People die, usually -important- people. As such, whilst it is high stress work, it is generally respected well by society, especially those who are frequent users of your career.
What am I describing there, a Portal Mage or an Airline Pilot in our world?
If you think about it, the similarities are thereâŚ
Translocation is obviously a fairly respected profession within Shalâdorei, as, well, Occuleth doesnât seem like some peon pleb, so I donât reckon the Sinâdorei would see it that way either, as they came from the same stock, with the same disposition as the Shalâdorei, I always reckoned on being a Portal mage as the sort of job where people go âI like that they do it, I respect that they do it, but Gawds no I would not like their job, I wouldnât have the concentrationâŚâ.
But as I say, most of that is headcanon to try and make sense of it all!
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The role of magisters, military and nobility in general seems mostly an extrapolation by roleplayers to fill the gaps in the lore and grant their own characters power and influence. Weâre given very little because itâs not relevant to the story Blizzard wants to tell.
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As many have said above the Magisters are interwoven in Thalassian society in pretty much all levels of governance. You get the impression theyâre the acting civil service for the kingdom, administering settlements and itâs enterprises beyond. If you want to get a sense of how important they are, look at who resides in Sunfury Spire. You have the mage (Magister) and priest class trainer halls opposite each other right outside the Throne room. No other classes are positioned in such a place of prominence.
As a further note, I still find it strange how underrepresented the Sinâdorei priesthood is in-game if this means theyâre potentially also a politically active faction? Probably even more so now since the re-ignition of the Sunwell and itâs now in-part holy nature.
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Um. No. If you look up Blood Elves on Wowpedia it gives, with the sources, the following facts.
Anasterian was Monarch, aided by the Convocation of Silvermoon (A Group of powerful Lords who aided in Governance). Now, both Anasterian and Kaelâthas, as well as the Convocation, are all dead.
There is no Convocation anymore, Kaelâthas chose not to reinstate it, and nor has Lorâthemar, as such the Lords are not part of the Political Governance (Unless also say, a Magister, Farstrider or other body of note). One could argue the Reliquary has stepped up in prominence, but there is no proof they have a say in politics. The Blood Knights, whilst being valued as stern protectors of the state, and upon occasion state enforcers, are not stated as being part of the political machine.
So uh, no, it isnât roleplayers. Itâs Blizzard. Its all there if you have a look. Has some interesting bits, including how the Farstriders are not actually a -formal- military group, despite being cited as âElite Rangersâ.
It would be hard, I think, for them to come up with a new organisation to reflect that. We do know that the Priesthood of Light is a respected body in Silvermoon, even though logically some would have the same cynicism that Liadrin had about âWhat it had ever done for themâ.
Its a shame, because it really does seem to be the same format of worship as the Faith of the Holy Light, not Loa, as the Troll Prelates, or Anâshe as the Sunwalkers, but the -exact- same faith, but then is this not surprising, given past alliances.
I think it seems likely they are just that, The Church, but that is just of course, supposition.
And as such, the full extent, function and shape of the modern Thalassian state is an extrapolation where players fill the gap with headcanon, yes.
The subfactions within the state as led by their representatives are a factor as Rommath, Halduron and arguably (thereâs that dangerous word) lady Liadrin have the clout to communicate concerns to Lorâthemar. The regent lord takes advice but rules by fiat, demonstrated in how he can make or break relations with the Horde.
My point was that the wider nature of the influence and strength of the magisters and farstriders have taken a shape of its own between roleplayers that does not reflect what weâre given. This wouldnât be a problem on the lore forum but it may or may not lead to wild fabrications being presented as facts.
They wouldnât necessarily need to reinvent the wheel here, although I do understand the point you are making.
It would get rather crowded, considering the Blood Elves already have the Magisters, Farstriders & Blood Knight sub-factions to account for. Each with their own individual plot lines and screen time required.
It is also true to say that the Blood Knight faction fulfils the light worshipping aspect of their society already in some form. With that in mind, you could throw priests in with them at this point with Liadrin bridging the two classes neatly, substituting the need for yet another internal faction.
However, if it is still at all possible, as alternative you could probably still define the priesthood separately, as a sect or denomination of the Church of Holy Light. That said, whether theyâre still in communion with the original church, and if so to what extent, is up for debate due to it being mostly an Alliance based organisation. Communications and co-ordination would be difficult even if they do share similar goals, due to the political divide.
As for what role this new faction could fulfil to better define them, an idea I do find interesting would be to have them also perform a sort of quasi secret police role. Maybe tracking various dissenters and potential threats from behind the scenes. You could bring in rouges too as the means to achieve this.
To support this idea, you can see some circumstantial evidence this already may be the case during the exchange in the Silvermoon Bazaar. There priest Kathâmar, after being summoned by 3 magisters, âpersuadesâ two dissenters opposed to joining the Horde to see the error of their ways. Bring the idea forward a couple of expansions, to act as a present threat the recent introduction of Void elves would make for a good antagonist too.
Alternatively again, even the Reliquaryâs name itself has religious connotations and, because that sub-faction does not seem to be completely developed yet in a sense, i do wonder if the âunkown councilâ backing them is the old Thallasian priesthood (or convocation for that matter) reaffirming itself. There could be an opportunity there to intertwine the three.
All in all, there are a number of options with what can be done with the priesthood but, they do seem rather set aside at present. It would be a pity to leave them stagnated as relics of a by-gone era. Any further lore developments would be welcome in my book.
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I love the idea of just about everything you have posted there, it would certainly add an element to the Clergy of Silvermoon that has not really been explored. We know that Elves of all stripes in war craft have a brilliant, and dreadful manner of applying dread necessity to everything they do, and that would add a certain element to them, a Church that is a behinds the scenes âpowerâ would be a nice touch.
It would be -sort of- like the role that Catholicism played in our own medieval world, an absolute powerhouse, yet one that was so interwoven in society, so implicit, that it rarely had to exercise its power.
Priest Kathâmar is a good example actually, as yes -technically- that happened in TBC, when Silvermoon was very much in draconian lockdown mode, and before they had really joined the Horde, but it still happened under the rule of âniceâ Lorâthemar, who in every other regard seems to be genuinely beloved by his people.
(This next is utterly headcanon, I just like the idea, I have no means to back it up, and donât in my roleplay, but I like the idea)
It would be cool if the Priesthood were also like the mystical rabbi types of eastern European legend, and had a hand in the creation of the Arcane Golems, that whilst created by Arcane, obviously, need a Priest to âsanctifyâ it, and their constant refrains about keeping the peace and obeying the law are low grade semi-magical reminders of the power of the Faith. I mean -someone- must have re-programmed the words they say, and reprogramming minds, even the most simple automata is not exactly Arcane, but Shadow Priest abilities. Making the Arcane Golems actually like our real world myths of Golems, where it wasnât purely -magical- means that created them, but Religious also. (Obviously the newer Anima Golems are completely different, they are just effectively combat robots and cannot speak)
Anyway, that personal headcanon about the Golems aside, the idea of the Reliquary being linked to the Priesthood is a pretty compelling one, the unknown Council backing them could well be the priesthood.
I disagree with it possibly being the Convocation, because they were killed to the last elf, and in fairness that organisation was sullied in the worst possible way, lets remember, Darkâhan Drathir was one of the Convocation, the singular Elf who killed 9/10ths of his people by his treachery. Itâs never stated, but its pretty telling that Kaelâthas did not attempt to restate another Convocation, and Lorâthemar, who actually -knew- Darkâhan pretty well, upheld that and was like ânope, not having that againâ
The Priesthood being behind the Reliquary is beautiful howeverâŚI mean yes, the very name does have a religious aspect, and the parallels with our real world are immense, the Reliquary hunt knowledge for power, in our world the Churchâs knowledge -was- its power, it controlled the written word, the secrets of Rome and Greece that would have been lost to barbarism in the Dark Ages (Who knew that Heron of Greece invented a primitive steam engine, or that Athens had elevators!). The Reliquary actually having a kind of mystical backing to it actually makes them much more appealing. Iâm kind of picturing them having some underground lair somewhere like at the end of Indiana Jones, where vastly powerful items are locked away, but labelled with a mystical âbreak in case of emergencyâ sigil.
Certainly the Priesthood in Sunfury Spire do seem to surround themselves in Knowledge, in terms of the vast amounts of books on the shelves, covering every wall. Surely an -absolute- faith needs just one book, and one book alone?
If the Reliquary and the Silvermoon Church were people, I would totally ship that relationship.
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Interesting extrapolation on the context of the Arcane Golemâs role when used as peacekeepers in the city. I never really considered the possibility the priesthood could be the ones implementing them to assist in keeping the status quo. Iâd always assumed this was just on the direction of Rommath and his Magisters. But, now that you mention it, it does tie in with what a religious order could do in order to help âkeep the faithâ amongst the congregation. Especially if controversial decisions were being made for what theyâd believe to be the greater good as portrayed during those trying times in the TBC period when survival was on a knife edge.
However, I would say with respect to the type of Golem, that as Blood Golems run on a form of (tortured) life magic from what we know, it would be more befitting for a priest to manipulate itâs âmind, body and soulâ being âalmostâ a living amalgamation of an entity. As such, using shadow magic to bend itâs will and possibly holy magic to pacify it. All in all, the priest would ensure they are made to serve a greater purpose, whatever they deem it to be. You could argue the Arcane Golems are more the robot due to the nature of the power source, imitating life more so than being somewhat alive in comparison. Again, this does depend on how the Arcane is perceived within the Lore.
Even though they were decimated as an acting body during the events of the Third War, i wouldnât write them off as never returning just yet.
Some of the ruling houses represented in the Convocation could be assumed to still survive to date in some form and new houses would emerge as to fill the power vacuums left behind by others although not on the same scale due to the casualties inflicted.
Yes Lorâthemar and Kael before him both had good reason not to reinstate it (Lorâthemarâs decision possibly influenced by some personal guilt too) âŚbut, the decision on itâs return may no longer be theirs entirely.
As conditions improve and civic life begins to recover, those houses who held on to positions of power before would want to retain it and expect it returned in due process. Other voices would also begin to emerge too as the draconian measures put in place to ensure the survival of their race are relaxed over time and lifted. If Suramar can be used as a reflection of Silvermoon, there were always nobles jostling for positions of power and influence even considering how dire the situation was with the legion at their doorstep. In the case of the high Elves it is likely, the Convocation was there in part to serve the interests of the nobles too, giving them a platform and a seat at the table with which to voice their concerns and act upon them. There is currently no political mechanism in place to sate that desire if it exists and their concerns are not being heard and dealt with. Lorâthemar apparently has stacks of letters on his desks to support this claim if this may in fact be the case. His attention currently diverted to dealing with the Horde leadership crisis and subsequent restructuring after a major conflict and now also distracted by Thalyssra would only add to the issue, be it true.
Maybe at some point weâll finally get to see the real vault of the Reliquary hinted at and also one of those ârenowned grand librariesâ of Silvermoon in the process.
To build on your picture and your previous link to the Catholic Church iâm thinking along the lines of an archive not to dissimilar from the Arcway (but hopefully better kept!). The entrance being hidden in that âfrontâ of a headquarters of theirs.
Overall, Iâm glad those few ideas of what could be done with the Blood elf priesthood are shared and I think youâve analysed them terrifically in your response too. Thoroughly enjoyed reading through the whole of it.
I would write more but, these responses are beginning to turn into essays 
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That is a very good point, and one I had completely ignored, the Anima Golemâs do actually have more of a âlivingâ component, twisted and torn though it may be, than the Arcane Golems.
They werenât even decimated, I mean Decimated just means 1 in 10 dies, so the opposite of what ultimately happened to the Blood Elves, where only 1 in 10 lived, but it is specifically stated that -every- member of the Convocation died. This obviously doesnât mean that every ânobleâ elf died, as we quite readily see that Lord Saltheril is not only alive, but holding parties but the body politic is however done and dusted and no longer around, the last of which was of course Darkâhan who is slain by the player Blood Elf (Though in lore, according to âBlood of the Highborneâ it was a combined action between Lorâthemar and the newly formed Blood Knights). There was almost certainly an element of personal guilt when it comes to Lorâthemar, because of the whole Banâdinoriel thing, but as it stands, they are still not a factor. (The parallels with Gelbin Mekkatorque and Sicco Thermaplugg are almost too obvious to mention, both reluctant leaders whose people were hammered by betrayal of a close friend).
For some reason (If you are familiar with his writings) I can see Lorâthemar as almost a Sam Vimes from Sir Terry Pratchettâs discworld novels, a square peg in a round hole, who does the best he can but is not naturally cast in the role he finds himself in, so I can imagine the paperwork just massing up and frustrating him more and more. We do kind of get that impression from the recent short story, that the poor elf just hasnât had time to stop and be -Lorâthemar-, and not the Regent Lord. Arguably that is always the nature of high office, but weâll see how that unfolds.
As for essays, pah, these are the Story forums, where else would such be discussed. I like that idea, the Church being behind the Reliquary, and that has sparked a lot of ideas that I will consider in future RP events I run, so thank you for that!
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