This ended up a long wall of text rant... I bolded first sentences for TLDR.
War Mode is "Free for All". That means NO RULES. By rules I mean etiquette, honour and sportsmanship RP. Ganking and corpse camping are perfectly acceptable and within Blizz's terms. After all, the affected player voluntarily submits to it, and they have the choice to avoid or retaliate. Blizz designed systems for the affected player to help them in any normal PvP situation. It's a different matter if inconvenience becomes harassment. But how often is it the "victim" that is the harasser. Abusive chat for example is against Blizz terms. But, ignore option is provided.
We should never feel bad about playing a game as designed. The players you fight accepted the Free for All *NO RULES* situation when they turned on War Mode. It's opt in, and players choose what happens to them or others in the game. For example, I don't understand when I see complaints about being corpse camped for 30 mins... they must secretly want to be camped, since they could avoid it or retaliate. Res at spirit healer is one example to avoid camping. The debuff lasts a lot less time than the 30 min camp. And if need be, you can flight whistle to nearest fp, hearth, log out, etc. Or have fun and try to escape without these tools, or group up and get some payback.
It's Free for All. No rules. When some players have no rules to go by, they can't handle that. People do like rules. So they feel the need to make up their own rules. And different players have different degrees of made up rules. For example, one might think it's okay to kill a player once, maybe twice, but not a third time. Another player might like to gank, but not corpse camp. Those type of made up rules, are fine for the player making them up... absolutely fine! But when you expect other players to play by your specific set of made up rules, when no actual rules exist... wtf.
Play within the real Blizz rules, and it's all good. Whatever is fun do it, and never feel bad lol. It's a game, all War Mode players submit to the Free for All of WPvP, and therefore should accept whatever random !@#$ happens.
In terms of actual rules, and not made up RP rules - exploits and harassment are the lines that should not be crossed. These are against Blizz's terms, actual rules. I sometimes get verbal abuse from the entitled whiny "victims" of WPvP, that think they have been wronged. The complainer types. But they are the ones in the wrong, when they forget it's only a game, and become verbally abusive for no good reason. That's where Blizz "might" intervene if it went far enough. And if the "offender" was within terms, Blizz WILL take the side of the ganker/camper if it came to that - the "victim" would be the one getting punished. For whatever reason, if you are being harassed, ignore/report. But inconvenience is not harassment.
It's fair enough to complain and voice opinion, but recognize that not everyone shares your opinion...
If the complainers response is "I just want fair PvP"... eh, this is WPvP, no rules. You should expect no mercy gankathons. And faction balance is irrelevant. Tools are available to avoid or retaliate. Or play by your made up rules and have fun with that, but for what reason would other players know or want your personal rules? I have some personal rules myself. Sometimes I break em, sometimes I don't, all good. But how arrogant would I have to be, to expect others to read my mind, and follow my rules. If you want fair PvP... War Mode is not that. You have Duels, Arenas, and Battlegrounds for fair PvP. Those game modes have built in rules such as 50/50 balance.
If the complainers response is "I just want to wq".... eh, why is your War Mode on in the first place... to get a bonus? That bonus is for WPvPers inconvenienced by death during wqs, not for PvEers to get free extra stuff! But you can try, that's totally okay. Sometimes when I attack a player, they start jumping around or whatever, basically saying "don't attack me, I'm not PvPing, I'm PvEing this wq".... then why is your frickin War Mode on lol... kill em quick.
All these complaints about War Mode, faction balance, ganking, etc. - It's all part of WPvP. You can avoid, or retaliate. Accept that you are in a Free for All no rules situation, or... turn War Mode off. It's not for everyone, totally understandable. I know players that hate PvP, but they have lots of fun in PvE. How many PvEers turn on War Mode just to get the bonus and extra talents though? That's fine, go ahead, but why complain about getting camped, etc.? You chose to enable it lol. You chose to be ganked, you chose to be camped. I don't often camp, but love to gank, and 1v1 is awesome fun in War Mode.
If you want rules, you don't understand the whole point of War Mode WPvP. Random PvP, where anything can happen. Love it! :)
4 Likes
I can't really argue with this, I agree with your wall of text.
But just one little whimp... I still hate one-shot kills from max lvl players on my low lvl chars (20-50) when I was looking forward to random pvp with players my lvl, and I cry inside when they corpse camp at the graveyard (as I experinced in Redrigde Mountains)
But just one little whimp... I still hate one-shot kills from max lvl players on my low lvl chars (20-50) when I was looking forward to random pvp with players my lvl, and I cry inside when they corpse camp at the graveyard (as I experinced in Redrigde Mountains)
I guess I wrote the post from the perspective of lvl 120, but yep, corpse camping at a gy might be reportable. Blizz consciously made it possible to attack low levels, and deliberately made you not immune at gy once ressed, therefore they are unlikely to care. The Blizz terms are kinda vague though. I believe it would have to be harassment to be an issue, rather than inconvenience.
On the other hand, ye, I can imagine not fun to be repeatedly corpse camped at a gy as low level. There's still options. For example, come on your 120 with a group and get revenge. Or, have fun trying to escape. As a low level with War Mode enabled, we accept this will happen, all part of the fun :)
I personally would not find it fun to camp a low lvl gy, so I don't do it. But as far as I know, if there's a PvP solution, Blizz are okay with it. It's when inconvenience becomes harassment, that's the problem.
On the other hand, ye, I can imagine not fun to be repeatedly corpse camped at a gy as low level. There's still options. For example, come on your 120 with a group and get revenge. Or, have fun trying to escape. As a low level with War Mode enabled, we accept this will happen, all part of the fun :)
I personally would not find it fun to camp a low lvl gy, so I don't do it. But as far as I know, if there's a PvP solution, Blizz are okay with it. It's when inconvenience becomes harassment, that's the problem.
2 Likes
But of course, I did read it from an even lv perspective - I just had the need to whimp a little ;)
There is consequenses with the enable War Mode button, and the prospect of extra gain shouldn't lure one into WM, if you aren't willing to play with the danger of being attacked.
There is consequenses with the enable War Mode button, and the prospect of extra gain shouldn't lure one into WM, if you aren't willing to play with the danger of being attacked.
No problem, let it out! :)
Just to be clear, I have no problem with opinions and complaints. It's when other players expect us to play by their made up rules. I don't get that attitude. And I really don't get the type of person that creates a lvl 1 just to whisper and harass... over a game!
But ye consequences, that's what makes War Mode interesting :)
Just to be clear, I have no problem with opinions and complaints. It's when other players expect us to play by their made up rules. I don't get that attitude. And I really don't get the type of person that creates a lvl 1 just to whisper and harass... over a game!
But ye consequences, that's what makes War Mode interesting :)
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Smart players turn warmode off and never back on unless they feel like doing the call quest then immediately back off it goes.
That and it splits whatevers left of the community into 2 phases meaning you see even less players than you would others, which makes playing feel even more like a ghost world when out of a big city. Even with battlegroup sharding.
That and it splits whatevers left of the community into 2 phases meaning you see even less players than you would others, which makes playing feel even more like a ghost world when out of a big city. Even with battlegroup sharding.
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Well, you can't really camp a corpse in WoW... you can always get away.
Agreed
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Yeah
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I dont really agree. I think world pvp could be improved drastically.
My basic issue with the no rules, hands off, let the community police itself type pvp is that ... most players are pretty cowardly really. Its really bloody hard to get most players to not run away from any vaguely dangerous engagement for easier pickings elsewhere. I think you really need to think about and design systems that encourage people to not gank lowbies, not group up to farm other players. I think when you turn weaker, lower level, solo players into farmable content you've ... created content that has no long term future.
And thats all i see in WM. Ganking and farming players that cant realistically hurt the attacking group. I saw mass, large scale brawls that would flare up around different parts of the map for about ... 3 /4 days but its just been a gankfest since.
My basic issue with the no rules, hands off, let the community police itself type pvp is that ... most players are pretty cowardly really. Its really bloody hard to get most players to not run away from any vaguely dangerous engagement for easier pickings elsewhere. I think you really need to think about and design systems that encourage people to not gank lowbies, not group up to farm other players. I think when you turn weaker, lower level, solo players into farmable content you've ... created content that has no long term future.
And thats all i see in WM. Ganking and farming players that cant realistically hurt the attacking group. I saw mass, large scale brawls that would flare up around different parts of the map for about ... 3 /4 days but its just been a gankfest since.
The bounty system is designed as a player controlled ganking discourager/compensator. It's pretty clever. The more you kill, the more likely you will get ganged up on. If you were the ganked, you can get compensation. A "natural" player controlled system, that feels fun and part of the game, rather than a fake rule to help unfortunates.
The bounty system is not perfect, too easy to remove it for example. But a great step in the right direction, maybe just needs tweaked.
I much prefer that apprach to "fake" rules like - this opponent is somehow 3 times stronger because outnumbered. FAKE. WPvP is all about random stuff happening, adding fake rules would wreck it for WPvPers.
The bounty system is not perfect, too easy to remove it for example. But a great step in the right direction, maybe just needs tweaked.
I much prefer that apprach to "fake" rules like - this opponent is somehow 3 times stronger because outnumbered. FAKE. WPvP is all about random stuff happening, adding fake rules would wreck it for WPvPers.
2 Likes
There are some, for example you can't create a raid to farm hordelets because they are precious and GM is just going to port you out.
Completely agree! Especially on Rules/No rules part.
War Mode is roaming opportunistic unscripted PvP in open world.
If you want something with scripted rules for you to feel like it's fair - there is Arenas and BGs. War Mode is unscripted and that is the main reason it is fun for so many players. And yes, there are many, on both sides.
If you turn War Mode ON - you turn your PvP-Adventure ON. And any good adventure doesn't have rules, sometimes it's not fair .. etc... but that is what makes it exciting, and that's why winning in it feels good.
Can't wait for more Open World content in 8.1 and beyond to WPvP in :D
I don't really like to do ganking, but if someone goes through all the hasle of adding btag friend or remembering name/server logging in on their Alliance toon ... and all that just to throw insults and other "curse words" - it feels only appropriate to teach them some manners :)
One more complaint that I got a few times in last couple of days:
But I'm only 300ilvl... why you attack me it's not fair. At first glance it could look similar to attacking low levels. But, PvP scaling works everywhere, including open world. Damage is percentage based, not actual values from higher ilvl gear. So if you're 120 and made conscious decision to turn WM on - you're target, no excuses.
War Mode is roaming opportunistic unscripted PvP in open world.
If you want something with scripted rules for you to feel like it's fair - there is Arenas and BGs. War Mode is unscripted and that is the main reason it is fun for so many players. And yes, there are many, on both sides.
If you turn War Mode ON - you turn your PvP-Adventure ON. And any good adventure doesn't have rules, sometimes it's not fair .. etc... but that is what makes it exciting, and that's why winning in it feels good.
Can't wait for more Open World content in 8.1 and beyond to WPvP in :D
I don't really like to do ganking, but if someone goes through all the hasle of adding btag friend or remembering name/server logging in on their Alliance toon ... and all that just to throw insults and other "curse words" - it feels only appropriate to teach them some manners :)
One more complaint that I got a few times in last couple of days:
But I'm only 300ilvl... why you attack me it's not fair. At first glance it could look similar to attacking low levels. But, PvP scaling works everywhere, including open world. Damage is percentage based, not actual values from higher ilvl gear. So if you're 120 and made conscious decision to turn WM on - you're target, no excuses.
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I don't even understand why you argue at all.
You turn on War Mode, you are open to attack by anyone of the enemy faction.
'nuff said.
Don't like it? Turn the damn thing off and stop crying like self entitled babies.
You turn on War Mode, you are open to attack by anyone of the enemy faction.
'nuff said.
Don't like it? Turn the damn thing off and stop crying like self entitled babies.
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