I was asked a few days ago by my guild to change class because rogues brings nothing to the raid.
I’m a reliable player so they still want me to raid with them if I change my class.
Our dmg is okay and we have a 2 min soak ability. but why take a rogue when an UH DK brings even more damage with a 1 min soak and AMZ.
My suggestion would be to either gives us a poison that somehow helps the raid. The poison could for example exploit the targets weakness and slightly increase crit chance for the whole raid.
Or maybe bring back smoke bomb and give everyone in it dodge chance or dmg reduction. Obviously you would still have to spec into it for PvP.
Feel free to change my mind about this, as I really don’t see a reason why anyone would want a rogue for progression raiding. Also any other suggestions are very welcome.
I agree. For example Warrior does pretty sad damage right now but you still bring at least one to the raid because of the buff. Rogue is the only CLASS in the game that is completely dispensable.
EDIT: I was just watching Sco’s stream and he specifically said “We are still recruiting and we are actually looking for melees… just not Rogues.” LOL. Sums it up pretty well.
Hah, wait until next tier is full of soak and other easily cheesable mechanics by rogues. Really, if your guild wants you to change from a reliable and viable class to another because of this silly reason, you better off without them. If you were adamant on playing Assa and they wanted you to change to Outlaw or Sub because the group needed more dps, that would be understandable. But this is just dumb.
Soaking is simply not anything unique to the Rogue… other classes can do it just as well so there is no need to bring a Rogue for that. And it’s definitely not enough to justify missing out on a AMZ.
I don’t think anybody wants Rogue stacking to be a thing. We just want something that makes 1 Rogue mandatory for each raid similar to Warriors.
You are right, but it would still be sad to have to leave them after all this time. And as Pugnale said, other classes have soak abilities as well. DK even has it on a smaller CD combined with AMZ.
I just want rogues to be wanted in raids for at least 1 reason, but right now there really isn’t any that some other class can bring.
Sorry, but I disagree. We’re not entitled to raid spots. I don’t really recall bringing anything other to the raid in the past either beside our dps. At least in Legion when I hardcore raided. If someone so desperately needs to min-max their raid roaster, then they are probably 1. Really bad at raiding 2. Elitist wannabes. Neither is a guild I’d like to join. I don’t want to be a token, I want to be appreciated for my skills as a player. I’ve never encountered a decent guild that said “No rogues because they are just simply good dps’.” On the server where I play now (Arathor) they still recruiting, even rogues. I frequently see them looking for them.
I understand that it could be frustrating, but really, do you honestly want to be in a guild which would tell you to reroll because another class is slightly better atm, and nothing guarantees you’ll be decent with said class? I don’t think so. Also keep in mind, we’re still in the beginning of the xpac, ppl will unsub once they get bored, then most guilds won’t care about what you play because they’ll need ppl to be able to raid. I’m optimistic.
Yeah, I could reroll to play the 21313th mage in the raid, but nothing guarantees that I’ll be decent with that class. In fact, I know I won’t be, so I’d just leave. Most guild is happy to have a full roaster of players and don’t really min-max, even if they mythic raid. Give it some time, ppl will unsub and then they’ll be happy to have you even as a rogue.
I know what you mean. But changing guilds like that and getting a raidspot is not such an easy task.
And it doesn’t really feel healthy that rogues needs to find a guild that accepts any class in order to raid.
I absolutely love rogues and do not want to change class. And I have already spent too much time on this character.
I think in the past we rogues have brought so much dmg that we were still wanted, but that is not longer the case.
The fact is simply that right now a lot of raid leaders don’t want to include Rogues on the team. They have 20 spots and they don’t want to waste any of them on a Rogue when they can bring better classes. And I don’t even think it’s fair to blame those raid leaders. If it’s guild that’s barely pushing for CE then they need an optimal setup to be able to do it. They cannot have a Rogue doing 6k on Sludgefist when they can get a Warlock doing 8k. For an average mythic guild it makes a huge difference and will impact their ability to get CE.
You can say what you will about the past and the future but this is the truth we are facing right now. And it sucks. I guess it’s a different story if you’re in a guild that doesn’t really care about CE, but if you’re going for CE it sucks to be a Rogue right now.
If we had some raid utility like DKs, Warriors, Monks and DHs we would at least have 1 spot on the raid team which is better than nothing.
Also I want to finish by saying, that even if you find a guild that accepts Rogues right now, it still sucks to know that you’re actively crippling your guild and they are basically doing charity by taking you. Even if all your parses are in the 90th percentile you would still help the guild more by rerolling to another class.
This is simply not true for guilds aiming for CE. And it’s not about them being evil, toxic or elitist. Getting CE is hard for most guilds and they are not in a position where they can bring sub-optimal classes. That just the reality.
We got CE during Legion. With Outlaw rogues on the team. Outlaw. Let that sink in. You can check this char’s profile, it’s there. Outlaw was on the same dps lvl as now arcane and frost mage ST is. Everyone died, me (assa) and the outlaw rogue stayed alive for last on Xavius, the two of us soaked, dodged and killed that bastard while everyone on discord cheered for us. If they can’t get CE because there’s a decent rogue with decent DPS, I have news for them… Bring the player, not the class, I stand by this. I think a huntard not being able to follow their rotation or can’t use their defensives are more crippling than a rogue who knows how to play. But hey, what do I know, I got CE with sub-optimal classes, so…
If a guild don’t need a rogue, fine. That rogue will find a guild that needs them. Because as I said, most guild will be happy to have good players on their team.
rogues are okay i think. definitely not necessary. no buff or special utility that is crucial in this tier from what i’ve seen, can easily raid without any rogues. but we’re not horrible either, do pretty good damage. but get outshined a bit by other melees.
I’m very glad for you that you managed to find a CE guild that takes sub optimal classes, and I completely agree with you that you should take the player not the class.
However right now many rogues out there are struggling to find a raid spot simply because of their class, and it’s really hard to find a CE guild at this moment that wants you even if you are a good player.
And as I said before, guild swapping like that is no easy task and not something I would want to do just because I play a rogue.
What if Rogues had a poison that increases crit chance for all physical attacks in the raid?
This would make rogues useful, and also buff the dmg of melee dps.
Yeah does not work on bosses, but adding something like this would be very good.
Right now the secondary poison has no usefulness in raids afaik.
Only reason I add a secondary poison on my weapons, is so my WA wont shout at me.
