Genn sends help to Calia.
Said help proceeds to help the Forsaken in cleaning the Blight from Lordaeron.
…by giving the Forsaken plague-immune monsters.
Oh, and did you know that there are still Forsaken troops in Gilneas?
Because Calia is promising to withdraw them in thanks for Genn’s help. How nice.
Also, the Forsken are ruled by a council now.
And Dark Rangers that want to can join the Alliance because…well, at this point it’s mostly choosing some cosmetic perks anyways and nothing more, I guess.
Oh, and all forms of magic can do necromancy, so somehow that makes Calia more like the Forsaken than she thought, because it’s the term necromancy that somehow matters to her.
Well, it was finally time for Genn and the Worgen to aid the Forsaken restoring Undercity and rebuilding Lordaeron with concrete help rather than just words of appreciation for them, and in exchange for Gilneas…
…if the Forsaken troops withdraw from Gilneas, it’s not like they could return in the future, right? Sylvanas is not among them anymore after all
but seriously, if this leads to a restored Gilneas freed of Blight for the Worgen in the future, maybe -just maybe- the Alliance players can endure helping the Forsaken for once after all…
Are these Alliance Dark Rangers Night Elves or Void Elves? or both? If they are only Void Elves, then bringing back those Night Elves did not really have a point in the story…and it’s just another proof that giving the Blood Elf model to the Alliance wasn’t really a good idea, because everything the Blood Elves get, the Void Elves would get anyway in order to keep things fair, even when something doesn’t really make sense like Dark Rangers in the Alliance anyway…
Well, this was somehow already cleared up when the Void Elves brought back to life those dinosaur bones in Zandalar purely using Void magic…the Light, Nature, Void, Fel and Arcane magic are powerful enough that they can all do “necromancy” in their own way (in the sense of bringing a dead person back to life, even if of course it’s a different process from the necromancy of undeath magic anyway). Not sure about the other remaining schools of magic though.
Both. Not sure if they’re meant to be high elves or void elves, but I don’t think Blizzard cares.
Or when the Shadowmoon orcs did it with Dark Star Power in WoD. And we had blood magical ressurections that didn’t seem very deathy, either. It’s not a surprise. Still, it’s taking conceptual diversity out of the world instead of putting more in. And, more importantly… totally unrelated to Calia’s problem. I don’t care if we call her ressurection necromancy. She still hasn’t undergone the Forsaken experience at all.
I guess you could reason the void elves having access is meant to show the high elf Farstriders that got culled back in wc3 and came back as dark rangers. It’s not a 100% clean but it’s still sort of accurate. Kind of like what they did with the Dwarves giving the Bronzbeard clan access to the Wildhammer customisations. It’s an alternative that allows them to steer clear of introducing high elves flat out which would be even more of a copy paste of the blood elves since both are the same race with different allegiances/ideologies. Then again we did get Lightforged Draenei… a completely separate race from original Draenei apparently.
After reading up on the datamined text I don’t honestly see this as a 100% bad thing. It’s unorthodox but it’s been done in other games/fantasy settings before. For instance, you could sort of look at Warhammer 40k as a source of inspiration, where the emperor and unliving saints are a sort of holy undead/spirit in a way. I do get the feeling they’re trying to push undead into having more of a sort of light/shadow theological slant. Which is good if they plan on doing so, because it starts to touch on Lordaeron’s past as being the religious centre of the human kingdoms. Calia being a human priest under the tutelage of Alonsis Faol makes it seem like there setting up the ground work for it. Still wondering when he will make a reappearance too with the undead getting more attention post Sylvanas.
In itself I pretty much see it as a sidenote. Not really important in any way. Since I have no faith they know what they are doing, I might react negatively on reflex, but you certainly are right, actually defining their framework for the future could be a good thing. There are just a few "If"s in that.
But in context? No, I smelled . I don’t think they put in that dialogue to explain necromancy. I think they put it in to lessen one of the more relevant criticisms of Calia as a ruler of the Forsaken: The fact that she is a totally different thing from them. She wasn’t raised the way they were, she didn’t live through their horrors and she wasn’t forsaken by anyone. And if lessening that criticism was the intention, it certainly missed the mark for me by a mile. Being raised by “necromancy” doesn’t bring any more kinship with the Forsaken than she had before. But I guess I might be wrong on their intent? Would be weird to have the conversation about her fitting in with “her people”, if that wasn’t part of it, though.
I think you’re definitely on the ball with it being a knee jerk reaction by Blizz to a large extent. I’m of the same mind that it’s an attempt by them to try and quell some of the disquiet amongst the community at large about Calia being shoehorned into the Forsaken leadership role. The whole datamined dialogue definitely appears to be a nod to that player discourse by the writing team where the subject is directly addressed.
However, I’m still optimistic that given time the public perception of her will change depending on where the story takes us. If we begin to see a more flawed character development, we could end up with more interesting characters in general. This could in turn eventually make Calia more in keeping with the Forsaken characterisation. Even the poster boy for the Alliance Anduin appears to be getting a similar treatment by giving him some sort of identity crisis to work through by parallel comparison.
The dialogue was specifically for NE Dark Rangers and them wanting to return home. Wonder what Tyrande has to say about that…
Oh you mean like Blood elves joining the Horde
Ehm… not really. By the looks of things the Void elves only re-animated the corpse and was more like a puppet than a resurrection. However the main issue (or retcon) is that Sin’dane pretty much said “doesn’t matter how you got resurrected, necromancy is necromancy, there is not difference you are all the same”. By using death magic to resurrect, the person coming back pretty much always has something missing from their soul (emotions mainly and in some cases memories), also there is that whole bloodlust thing we got to explore with Zelling and overcoming it being one of the core parts of being Forsaken. That is totally different than what we saw in Calia’s case when she got resurrected by the light and she has not shown any symptoms, by the looks of things she is pretty much the exact same person as she was when she was alive. So there actually is a huge difference between the magic you use to resurrect something and it’s not just “necromancy lol”. Which further proves that pretty much every shadowlands character is a moron and doesn’t know what they are talking about.
Probably nothing. She welcomed the undead elves back into fold 5 seconds after they were risen from the dead. So i dont think she would have something against it now.
If they were just puppets, they would have attacked the Void Elves as well…they were properly acting under the same principle of death magic, while someone is just brought back with necromancy (Void necromancy too), the first instinct he/she has is to attack the enemy of the caster, the Zandalari in this case.
Not to mention I think the Void Elves do this to their own animals, too…for example, the Void Hawkstriders…I have not seen any proof that they can infuse animals and people with a void ritual similar to the one that hit Magister Umbric and the first group of Void Elves on Telogrus’ Rift, so it must be Void necromancy…they take a dead hawkstrider and bring it back using the Void (but even if it’s REALLY a ritual, for me it would be just as bad though)
So yeah, the Void Elves can potentially using necromancy even after the Forsaken can’t without the Val’kyrs anymore, and potentially they could maybe even do it on the corpses of the dead elves as well in the future, while having no bad repercussions for it and while being tolerated in the Alliance …just another power that
alongside all the uber powers of Alleria shows how much the Void Elves can be Mary Sues in the story (and the reason quite a lot of people don’t take them seriously or think they make no sense, and would have preferred playable “regular” High Elves of course)
Maybe she meaned it simply in the sense “it doesn’t really matter about what school of magic brought you back, you were all dead and you all belonged to the Shadowlands, but you have been brought back to the living world at some point, so under this regard you are all the same, dead people who are still alive because of all kinds of magic?”
Why would they attack the void elves when the void elves where the ones controlling them? Imo from I saw the void elves where just puppeteering the dinosaur bones in a sence.
That’s a stretch and the question isn’t if it’s right or wrong to do so, it’s is it necromancy or isn’t.
For clarification what exactly do we count as necromancy, if raising mindless skeletons to fight for you for a time like DKs then sure I would count the void elfs, however I was more talking about a full on resurrection like the forsaken and Calia. Pardon for the confusion and if this seems to be moving the goal post.
Yeah but the question Calia asked was very specific and giving a broad and vague answer like that (if that is what she meant) is essentially dodging the question. Idk from my standpoint it’s a continuation of poor writing and ignoring pre-established lore and rules.
Also there is a very clear difference between reanimating a corpse and resurrecting a corpse, in the first instance you are just moving the body in the second one you are actually returning/putting another soul into the body so it can function on it self. If Sin’dane does not understand that fundamental difference and it’s all the same to her I question her status as an expert on this subject.
They already were in « Before The Storm », glad they brought it back since it’s exactly what I wanted for this race
We know that some kaldorei dark rangers didn’t want to serve Sylvanas and technically, the Forsaken initially wanted to join the Alliance
Yeah but we knew that before, we actually saw it happen multiple times in game. Eonar brought us back to life during our fight against Argus although she’s a Titan (an Arcanic being in essence, though she used Nature magic too). Ner’zhul raised some dead in WoD using the Void/Shadow, Calia was raised by the Light and Mistress Apostriss (a shivarra) uses fel to raise dead Eredars (she’s the first demon that came to my mind, but I’m sure that other demons raise the dead using fel can be seen in game). For a while I thought that each force of the cosmology being able to freely take from what she have only belonged to Death was one of the reasons behind Zovaal’s rebellion but I was wrong.
If that’s the case, where have they been hiding this whole time? The known Quel’dorei dark rangers joined the Forsaken and the Horde because the Alliance and their kin rejected them.
This. Her life since she fled Lordaeron hasn’t been easy but instead of using that to make her more compelling, we get this complete lack of acknowledgment of the traumatic experience the Forsaken have gone through. They did pull the same with Sylvanas in this expansion too so I’m not surprised that they keep minimizing how hard it is to be a Forsaken. I still remember that the new description they had written for the race at some point was this :
OLD:
You bear the curse of the Forsaken, returned from the grave. It is your choice what you do with this second chance at life-
NEW:
As one of the undead Forsaken, you have been reanimated by dark magic. Though shunned by the living, you tirelessly strive to protect them.
It shows how much they care about the background of that race
We’re talking about a character who was fooled by Kel’thuzad, I can’t take her seriously
If more than half the void elves are pretty much just blood elf converts then the you can apply the same logic as to how dark ranges can now be found amongst their ranks too. I’s just assume they’re simply the ones who for whatever reason changed allegiances from the Forsaken to the Alliance post Sylvanas. It just so happens they’ve been bundled with void elves for simplicities sake. Same as how the Bronzebeard dwarfs got Wildhammer customisations.
I agree…otherwise there should be a good explanation about if now these Ren’dorei Dark Rangers would be more interested to research and study the Void, or simply to join the Void Elves as a justification to join the Alliance? About the study of the Void I don’t really see a good point for an undead being to join the Void Elves, the undead should be partially immune or resistant to the whispers anyway, and the Void Lords and Old Gods generally hate the Undead and consider them one of their most dangerous enemies…but this would be valid for Void Elves Death Knights too I guess…
and even among the living, for example how do Void Elves warlocks manage to stay sane at all? Not just they have a will strong enough to resist to the whispers of the Void but also the corruption of fel magic and demonic energy, they seem like they would become insane and/or go rogue almost immediately as just one of these powers alone is capable to corrupt even a higher being like a Titan… And in my opinion it would be impossible that the Alliance and it’s majority of Light-centered races realistically trust these dark individuals anyway, just like in the case of Dark Rangers coming from the ranks of the Forsaken now as well…
overall, this Void Elf race requires a really big amount of suspension of disbelief from a person to work, not just about how they are tolerated in the Alliance at all but also because of their Void powers that they can control seemingly without repercussions, the Blood Elves in TBC at least had quite a lot of negative repercussions both in Outland and Quel’thalas for their decisions about to sate their magical addiction with fel and arcane magic and getting more power for themselves in order to have more chances of survival…
No point in calling them « high elf Farstriders from W3 » if you’re simply talking about the only dark rangers that existed before BFA. They’re Horde members, and Tyrande supposedly accepting kaldorei dark rangers back into their society doesn’t mean that the High Elves or Void Elves would be ready to do the same with quel’dorei dark rangers they have fought many times before. It’s all still fan theory at this point, the new customizations were not backed by lore elements, unlike the first generation of Void Elves who are clearly said to be exiled Sin’dorei in game and have both High Elves and Blood Elves recruits in their capital. Nothing proves that the quel’dorei dark rangers were offered the choice of leaving the Horde to join the Alliance, both situations are completely different.
At the end of the day, velf dark ranger features look and feel more like cosmetic gimmicks.
From what I can see, when I look at the whole “Dark Ranger” story - I see their primary future is being on the Horde. The only Alliance presence will be from the night elves who have rejoined their society, but the only one who I think can vouch for them at the current moment would be Sira as she is still in Alliance custody (as far as the lore goes.)
Delaryn doesn’t want to go back as she doesn’t think she will be accepted, so she remains with Velonara in the Ruins of Lordaeron.
Yeah pretty much. My understanding is that Dark Rangers remain fundamentally a Horde group. I do hope some development is on its way regarding the Alliance Darkfallen ; however considering that even the KALDOREI undeads decided to remain in the Horde for the most part, the number of Thalassian undeads that defected to the Alliance must be frankly insignificant, realistically. Undead Ren’dorei def sounds like a purely cosmetic thing.
I think it would have made sense for Delaryn to return to the Alliance, while the Horde would have gotten Sira as a representative for the Horde Kaldorei Dark Rangers. I guess it will happen at some point for Sira
Oh it would have made sense for Delaryn to return to the Alliance as it would have given something to the Alliance Darkfallen in some way, but we only hear of it as a passing comment from Velonara.
Again - I just think the future of the Dark Rangers will always remain as a Horde driven aspect. Alliance will just have a small corner of that cake.
That being the small amount of Darkfallen Night Elves who do defect - again, it’s whether we actually see that in the lore. I remain unconvinced unless Sira returns to the story. Like many things some people get excited about - if the story isn’t worth showing, then Blizzard will not take it any further.
. I don’t think they put in that dialogue to explain necromancy. I think they put it in to lessen one of the more relevant criticisms of Calia as a ruler of the Forsaken: The fact that she is a totally different thing from them. She wasn’t raised the way they were, she didn’t live through their horrors and she wasn’t forsaken by anyone. And if lessening that criticism was the intention, it certainly missed the mark for me by a mile. Being raised by “necromancy” doesn’t bring any more kinship with the Forsaken than she had before. But I guess I might be wrong on their intent? Would be weird to have the conversation about her fitting in with “her people”, if that wasn’t part of it, though.
