- When the mega dungeon was added.
So were ~ in line (1 or 2 off) from past expansions.
Far from the 16 you suggest. That never happened, and will never happen. As you yourself have pointed out.
No you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. We didn’t have 10 dungeons at the same time in DF. The mega dungeon didn’t get added to the M+ pool to make it 10, we just had only 6 extra dungeons.
I swear, some of you are impossible to explain anything to. NEVER have I said we had 16 dungeons before, and never have I said this won’t happen, I have NOT pointed this out.
Just because it never happened doesn’t mean it won’t ever happen. You’re acting like every single M+ design is set in stone and will never change. You’re no better than those yelling that seasonal affixes were here to stay.
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I get what your saying.
But hear me out: I don’t work at blizzard. But the fact that they chose to use old dungeons for M+ instead of making new ones…
There must be a reason behind that. See my point?
And to be honest, technically we got 24 dungeons in DF. So I don’t get where the complaints are coming from. We got 10 dungeons from DF… + 14 old ones (4+4+6). Total 24. Technically, we have never had this many dungeons.
All you are complaining about is that instead of cycling them over weeks, we cycle them over seasons.
Which brings me to:
And let me get something straight here. People that push are less than 1% of the player base according to Raider IO. I form part of that group.
But designing the game for the 1% is a mistake. So no. I still think cycling new dungeons every week is a bad idea.
as i already said, it’s the only way trinkets can be perfectly equal, because, no, they’re not all just undertuned, the very fact that they differ i.e. even just in use cooldown makes them drastically better for a class and worse for another one, according to the CD timing you want the trinket to sync to. All the other effects they have are just too different and situational to think you can tune them by turning a number up or down. But even if you could, your solution basically means not caring about which item you get, which just makes it boring. Making loot irrelevant is not a solution, making it targetable makes it a goal, something rewarding, and it solves the problem of where the items come from.
they tune trinkets every season, mainly at the start and at the end.
I didn’t disagree with adding those, honestly i don’t care. i said there already are none, therefore, it’s not a good argument against removing all the affix that we have now, which are boring and useless.
I’m not against good seasonals like awakened and encrypted which allowed you to have flexible routes, but honestly it’s the only 2 that i think actually added something relevant for that reason. Shrouded was ok i guess, i didnt mind it nor loved it. The kiss/curse ones like thundering and prideful are indeed impactful but can be annoying for the interaction with other mechanics in the dungeons. But, again, i’m not discussing those, it’s all the weekly rotational ones that i am talking about and always find pointless.
don’t need your warnings, that’s exactly what i wish they did 
you already are
no, they’re not.
same. i like that you can in some cases adjust your build to it to be more single target/aoe oriented according to the week, but the counterweight of it compeltely unbalancing the tuning of a dungeon to the point where it’s unplayable sometimes, is not worth it. a trash mob cast oneshotting you or a boss taking as long as a raid boss should be dictated by the key level, not depending on the week.
so you know you can’t ignore them specially as melee you have to stop dps on a whole pack just because 1 mob died and the shade is targeting you. boring.
i felt the same until i started playing something that can’t deal with them, so i just get the downside if someone in my group fails them. 0 upside
sanguine and bursting aren’t just a tank and healer jobs, and those two are probably the most obnoxious at the moment. for bursting there’s no other management than just stopping dps, sanguine you can somewhat manage but you can’t help but sometimes have a high health, unknockable, ungrippable mob get fully healed while it’s stuck casting uninterruptable abilities in a sanguine pool. entangling is not something you think about, it’s just annoying when it pops and paired with other dungeon mechanics makes for some really dumb lose/lose situations like on last boss of vortex pinnacle or the worm boss in shadowmoon burial grounds.
OK. So you are saying that if I go right now to Icy-Veins and look at BiS trinkets for any random class, there exists the possibility to have 0 trinkets that are S or A tier that drop from M+?
And if we come back to the aberration of S2 where EVERY bis trinket came from the raid, the solution to that problem according to you is… adding some system?
Why not just balance the existing trinkets? I can give you a perfect example right now:
BRH drops Amalgams spine. Which is a “return mana” trinket. VERY tempting for all healers.
Exept that Blizz was lazy and just upgraded the ilvl of the gear from Legion. Instead of updating that trinket to DF.
So now it turns out that its OP for RDruids and useless for any other class. Why? Because it returns mana depending on the spell you use. It happens to be that back in legion, the spells for each healer class were #1 and #2. But not today. Today its only for RDruid. So balance THAT…
Yeah, the raid ones. And very little. They tune the Tier sets more often than that.
So am I. What I mean “kiss/curse” like seasonal is not “return seasonal affixes”. What I mean is (and im making this up): IF nobody dies to bursting, you ALL get +5% vers. OR, if you sucessfuly dispell the afflicted mobs, you get +5% haste. IF you dont, -50% healing.
Stuff like that. Which is different than deleting them.
Good that you are. Because removing seasonal affixes really backfired.
They are not exactly the same. Just because this week is tyranical instead of fortified. Route is different, pull size is different. Where I use DCs is different… even the trinkets I use are different.
I dont see why you disagree here. The issues you mention are legit. Really. But deleting affixes or having a dinar system to get raid trinkets with out raiding (because they are OP) is not the right way. IMO. There are better ways.
Idk i think affixes do actually spice up and make the dungeons feel different and would hate to see them go away. Granted some affix removals have been good, (skittish,explosive).
And by looking at the rio of the people criticizing affixes m+ does not seem like something you are interested in doing alot so why complain about something when you know you are not the targeted group.
i can see it being diffucult to realize that people who don’t like affixes might play less exactly because of that and as a result have less and lower keys completed, for someone who thinks that blizzard makes dungeon design choices exclusively “targeting” players in a specific m+ score range. the higher ones even, the ones with the least amount of players.
also you are about 600 score below the criticizing OP at the time i’m writing this.
the extent to which your take is wrong has layers, it’s like a nonsense cake 
i wasn’t talking about m+ vs raid trinkets at all, i was talking about trinkets in general.
that’s not why i want dinars, i do raid, infact i usually enjoy raiding more than m+.
i just want an at least somewhat deterministic loot system.
With the fated system you still needed to do the content to upgrade the items to the corresponding difficulty item level, it was perfect.
I am confused. You talk about affixes and trinkets. I thought that you were talking about the M+ scene. Not Raiding.
Because Raiding, with all its ups and downs is not so bad. If you raid every week you will eventually get what you want. And that is why they removed dinars in the first place. So by adding dinars what you achieve is to get that trinket in week 2 or 3 of the patch, which would de-incentivize you to raid further.
When it comes to M+, it IS important to consider the power of of the trinkets. Because (A) if they are more powerful than the raid ones, its even worse than dinars because M+ is farmable and dinars are not. And (B) it would beg the question: Why raid?
So blizzards solution so far has been to give more power to the raid ones and time-gate them in some way. Currently its RNG.
But that leaves M+ players dead in the water. Especially with over-the-top OP broken raid trinkets and weapons.
So it IS important to balance out trinkets very, very well. Which currently is not happening IMO.
Its the price we pay for having GL in raid instead of PL. It increases the probability of receiving some specific piece of loot, but in exchange we don’t get dinars and we get the “uber-rare” items.
So you are 100% sure that the reason you dont play m+ is cause of affixes lmao. ’
When i said “target” i meant that some people just inherently like parts of the game, some people are pvpers and despise pve, and some are the exact opposite. And so PVPers should not be giving advice on how to fix PVE so that they can enjoy it.
It would have been different if you really liked something, and then all of a sudden you stopped liking it. Then you can say what changes you disliked etc.
Take a look at prev seasons, gotten 2.5-3k almost every single one since late legion. When i checked you out i did not just look at your current score for this season.
who said i don’t play it? and even if that was the case you think you would know better than me why i don’t play a game? buddy you forgot to take your meds.
I’ve been playing every season since 8.3 in your same rating range but apparently it hasn’t crossed your mind that i wasn’t playing this character. lmao.
Even if i was new i’d have a right to say what i think would improve the game none the less. People like you are the reason WoW forums and the community in general have a bad reputation. I can respect your opinion and the fact that you like affixes, but arguing with some pseudo elitist mental gymnastics that people shouldn’t give feedback about something because you disagree, is weird to say the least. Specially when you’re not even that “elite” and make a lot of goofy and wrong assumptions about things that you can’t even properly check.
the affixes part obviously was about m+, when i talk about loot deterministic systems i mean for all pve content. dinars were only used for raid gear, maybe that’s what caused the confusion, but i’m thinking about a system that applies to all the current season gear, including m+ items with similar requirements as for the raid items, based on the amount and difficulty of keys completed.
no, i talked about affixes and loot. in general. it was you who mentioned trinkets as example of gear imbalance, saying that if they were balanced we wouldnt need deterministic loot. i’d rather have “imbalanced” or simply heterogeneous/situational gear AND something to target the few specific items you need most.
they’re equally rng, the system doesnt matter as much as whatever relative drop chance they assign to it. i want more deterministic loot chasing/bad luck protection.
they removed it because that was an experimental season. i think the experiment was successful and should be implemented on. because you don’t necessarily eventually get them. it’s not guaranteed, just like m+ items. or maybe you get it last week of the season, or very late anyway, and maybe it’s an important item for your spec like the weapons and trinkets last 1 or 2 raid bosses usually drop. it’s even worse when talking about alts, which you shouldnt be expected to play as consistently on but the gear matters just as much, as in the specific items, not just the item level.
Bro what, i think that you should not give feedback about something when you are not interested in that thing. Obv i was wrong when it came to you because apparently you do play m+ but my point still stands.
If you are talking about M+ specifically: In that case it would be worse to put dinars.
Thing is, that a deterministic system FORCES you to choose an item specifically. While if you just run dungeons, because there are multiple copies of the same item, its easier to get an item for that slot.
If you think about it, its faster to get ANY 2-hander (for example) than one specifically. And because primary stat is >>> than secondary stats, its a bigger improvement for you.
So putting a deterministic price would force you do more dungeons in the end.
Its not “equally RNG” to start. Also, determinism never ended good.
Look at the catalyst. Its a deterministic way of acquiring tier set. But it was gate-kept at 6 weeks. And I get why blizz does things like that. Its overall not healthy for the game if people are fully geared by week 1 of a season. You need to delay it somehow.
And people STILL complained that they wanted the catalyst in week 1.
And as proof, go to the SL S4 era post. TONS, and I dont exagerate… TONS of people complaining that killing 20 bosses for 1 item was too much. That clearing the raid ONCE should be enough to guarantee EXACTLY the item you wanted.
PLUS whatever dropped on the raid. Which is insane.
You do. Just farm the content every week. It IS 100% deterministic. The same way that if your in a room with 300 people there is a 99.999999999% chance repeatable that someone shares your same birthday. Which in practice means: A guarantee.
you make no sense at any point
Il make it simple for you:
If you put a deterministic way of aquiring gear with 0 restrictions there will be people that will play M+ 24/7 and get every single BiS gear Mythic level in week 1. Which would affect the raiding scene by a lot. And this is bad for the game.
SO. To avoid that, you place a cap on how much “currency” you can get. Like conquest.
So then you get (A) people that complain the cap exists. And (B) most people stop playing once the weekly cap is acheived. Overall worse for the game in the early season. In the late season you will have people complaining that catch-up mechanisms are too much work and need a nerf. And eventually you will get a nerf. Which is also bad for the game.
So all in all, too much work and drama to acheive what we already have. Basically.
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