if bg’s take long why not just use mercenary buff and switch to other faction
I am on a busy realm but even so many activities are cross realm and cross faction and I just don’t struggle to see lots of players everywhere. In Valdrakken, on the Forbidden Isle, lots of pugs listed etc. AH is full of materials.
If anything more stuff needs to be made cross faction, like LFR, LFD etc. But despite that my Alliance still manages to queue for LFR etc.
I’m not saying I expect the player data to be as high as earlier in the season. We are at the end, on a mini patch waiting for the next big content patch. But there is a vast difference between less player participation at the end of a season and a game actually dying. However there isn’t really any player data. The only official data we see is in the Blizzard financial reports.
Indeed, and people have even got worse with the comparisons, comparing games that aren’t even MMOs. I’ve always felt that the only thing that can actually kill WoW is Blizzard themselves.
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its still a patch. People dont usually stopped playing right after patches. Also, DF sales was low. Its only fair to asume that DF population dropped. With sales being low and queue time getting bigger and bigger.
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Yes yes yes. its dying. We are all doomed. Lets all take our canned food and run for the shelter and await the final end.
…
…
So anything else new guys? My canned food expiry date might run out soon. Been waiting in the cellar since the “great doom of WoW dying at TBC” was announced…
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By definition, everything is dying since they day it was born.
So, yes, WoW is dying since 2004.
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Normal 60’s leveling dungeons pop after 2 mins at 3 am.
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And the new patch is really busy for me. There are people everywhere.
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Except of fact that from past expansion we know that players what quit at beggining of 10.0 they in most cases do not comeback for patches. As participation is getting lower and lower each single patch.
Do we? All I know is my experience of the game and that is that it’s still very much alive and well.
Lots of players, lots of pugs. Busy end zone. I don’t have long queues for content.
So I’m not quite ready to get on the doom and gloom train. Some people are always willing the game to die and I really don’t understand the mentality.
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Personal experience is that players who quit mid expansion (in this case mid-Shadowlands) don’t come back until at least the next expansion - if ever.
Dragonflight’s quality has little influence on the number of players in it. I think it’s pretty damn solid, but there’s 10+ people I used to know who quit in 2021 and they’re doing other things now that they’ve got invested into. Of course they won’t come back on the chance the hot mess of 9.1 has turned itself around - they’re having fun elsewhere. They have no reason to take that risk.
OTOH I do think we see a lot of seasonal players. They start a patch with a goal of X rating in M+ or PvP. They achieve it, then they leave until next patch.
This is my experience. I prefer not to pug, I like at least 2-3 friends in my parties, but when we pug, we get people within minutes and we start. I pugged one key as a solo healer a couple of days ago, accepted and in the instance in 5 mins, finished a little over time but nobody got angry, everyone was just happy nobody left. New zone is rammed, even on an RP shard.
Admittedly I’m not into PvP which I think the OP is. But then, I thought PvP was a poopshow since literally forever. The devs have never really been invested in it and it’s so obvious from the lack of new battlegrounds, arenas and general innovation that they don’t actually consider PvP to be very important.
I honestly don’t understand why PvP enthusiasts are still here after so long being shown that this game isn’t designed for them. WoW has been trying to shed its PvP crowd for over a decade and they’re still here… meanwhile other games would serve them so much better! 
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PvP is a mess, I mean the whole Ret pally scenario probably made people unsub.
if not fixed we all leave the game . now they win just for dps with 0 skill . in open world pvp u die if u see any paladin. i die with hunter from far .They reach me easily without any problems . when reach im die with 2 or 3 spell each +50 -100k dmg and im full conquest gear 
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Okokok… let’s dispel the myth that this expansion is alt friendly.
It’s not if you plan to clear the top content on your alt. If you are ok with world quest gear then sure, but otherwise no.
Gearing up is extremely hard on alts and is not made easier by having a main. First, the group loot system in raid makes raids completely useless to gear up a character. This leaves M+ as the only option for non pvpers.
In M+ you are faced with the same problem where the gear drops are not reliable. So, you have to get what you get and use crafted gear for the rest. It seems somewhat doable but wait… now you have to upgrade the gear and you will still have to grind specific dungeons for trinkets.
Even if we assume you only craft 5 pieces of gear, first you will need rating to be accepted in groups, second you need to do x50 dungeons on the 10-15 bracket to upgrade those crafts and another 50 on the 16-20 bracket.
100 m+ dungeon runs minimum per alt,not to mention all the gold necessary to fund the craft. Oh, and did i mention that if you are not a meta spec it will make the whole process even harder?
Really? You find that is alt friendly?
I used to keep 4 alts in past expansions, now i am down to 3 in DF and frustrated cause i still haven’t gotten the trinkets i need on one of them.
There is also the whole profession knowledge grind which is just awful.
No. DF is not alt friendly unless you are super casual. Even then, the rep grind is still awful with the help, cause it’s super slow to even complete in your main. I had to do WQ’s for months to get the things maxed. I finished only last week.
Now, for the rest of your post, yes. I know the hardcore fans live in denial, but this was the case already in BfA and even more in SL and now DF. WoW has had too many duds and SL was the straw that broke the cammels back. Going back will not be easy. It will take years of delighting players and honestly i don’t see it happening at this rate. Devs talk the talk, but they don’t walk the walk.
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Yes that was my pvp glory days expansion was perfectly pvp balanced back then had fun doing world PvP,wintergrasp,arenas,bgs.
Had 10k kills xD believe it or not played horde back then nowadays pvp is one confusing and all over the place imbalanced clusterduck.
Had half relentless half wrathful gear on me back then good times.
So normal people who do the available content and leave, because the game simply does not have nearly enough content to stay subbed year-round unless you somehow happen to be both a mythic raider, a pet battling legend, and a collection master with every set in the game.
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I genuinelly feel like people are trying to gaslight us constantly. They are just blatantly lying in our faces.
Vanilla Classic, TBC Classic and Wrath Classic were all big success stories… Then if you point out they were a massive success, people try and talk about nostalgia. Like, yeh… Classic was a success for almost 5 years… due to… nostalgia…
Or maybe, maybe Vanilla was actually fun to play, and that is what all the numbers show? 
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It was back then but you know when the nostalgia period ends for them they return to hating the hell out of it again because you can’t go back to the past and relive it again.
Times change and so do ppl.
But it’s true numbers were biggest back then and ppl genuinely enjoyed it 
.
Saying from personal experience played wotlk classic recently i depleted my nostalgia and burned myself out it’s no longer fun as it used to be.
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Not really. With personal loot, the server rolled need for everyone for everything then told you who won. The only difference is you see the names of those who roll against you now. You have no less chance, and actually have more because some people might pass. (Especially if you run with the same raid group every time.)
People really fuss too much about this. Putting yourself through hell for 1.5% more dps isn’t worth it. A trinket is unlikely to make or break any given dungeon or raid.
You can just do the 50x 16+. And obviously you get a piece every 10.
It’s really not that hard to get to this performance bracket even on a fresh character, you just have to be prepared to target the dungeons where you have no score for a bit. There is a process, but that process can quite reasonably be referred to as playing the game.
Yes.
I started playing my resto shaman more seriously just a couple of weeks ago. I’ve done probably 30 dungeons, I’ve enjoyed my time on it, I’ve mostly played with friends, and it’s now hit ilvl 400 and is starting to feel more capable.
At no point did I feel compelled to engage in a mandatory power grind like Torghast or Korthia. I haven’t been putting in an hour before work every morning to do dull solo chores that I didn’t want to do. I’ve had no time spent on it that I begrudge and which felt bad. None. All of it felt like playing the game rather than getting ready to play the game.
If my goal was to be doing bleeding edge 25+ keys then sure, yes, there’s a ways to go; but there should be. Top tier content wouldn’t be top tier content if you could jump straight to it - it’d just be mainstream content.
The point is that there’s no random grind of unrelated tasks before you can get on the progression ladder for your preferred content. You just do the thing you like doing, starting at the low end and working up. That is why DF is alt friendly.
And for me the game was fun when those expansions were the current expansion but I tried all the Classics on released and they just weren’t as much fun as experiencing the content when it was new.
Really? How so?
They should also try to rework the internal stat scaling in every BG from lvl 10 to 69 so that it doesn’t exceed 10%. Currently it’s 1000%. No literally 1000%. Just done a 30 bracket leveling my tank, can barely hit 15k dmg getting one shotted by everyone while sandbagged to oblivion, while they got 150k dmg on top. Ten times more dmg between high vs low lvl/gear players. And blizz wonders why the community has turned so toxic when people with no skill dominate others who are clearly better than them.
Then at max lvl BG cc spam is the cancer.
You need to change the game so that cc only debuffs players, reduces attack/spell dmg etc. And as a hotfix, make all cc conditional: can’t use certain stuns unless target is below x% life, like kill shots. Like wtf is the point in even trying to fight 1 v 5 when you just eat all stuns in a row and can’t even do anything. Nobody likes this, nobody wants this, this archaic 1990 design of 10v10 balanced BG skills from wow vanilla when everything was super slow and skills from another planet compared to now.