Tier sets - the good, the bad and the ugly

To begin with I’d like to thank WoW devs for DF and how much effort they put in the game. Things are changed a lot and fixed very often. Sometimes they make mistakes like with Ret but only people who do nothing don’t make mistakes.

Let’s talk about sets though, shall we?

Let’s start with the good part of the current Tier design. They are exciting and different every season and for most specs they change they way the spec is played so we rarely are in the situation that our spec plays the same. Sometimes you could feel bored to play the same way for few seasons but with sets every season is like a new expansion.

Now let’s talk what’s bad. For me the set aquisition isn’t much fair. Why? Because Raiders have too many opportunities to get them compared to M+ and Arena players. I saw few players on my server with 4 pieces already while average PvP player has 1 or 2 at best. I get it - the goal is to extend the world first race and to prevent them from getting 4 set 2nd week on everyone in the raid group.

And now let’s talk about the ugly. Unfortunately sets aren’t fair for everyone and they shape the meta in PvP and PvE. I can present my view as an arena player but I’m sure that some players can sdd something from PvE one. So on one spectrum we have Sub Rogue, Enhancement Shaman, BM Hunter, SP and Moonkin while on other side we have Ele, Resto Sham and Outlaw. Sub Rogue set is insane. It makes every Shadow Dance deadly thanks to Symbols of Death. 4 set isn’t much weaker as Evis is main source of his burst. Enha gets dmg increase on the go like it doesn’t hit hard yet. On the other hand Ele set is just weak 1 Stormkeeper stack every 100 sec that deals 80 k dmg is nothing. 4 set is useless as we rarely use Chain Lightning. Earthquake from time to time. R Shaman and Outlaw are the biggest losers though. Why? Because you never ever cast Healing Rain in PvP. First of all your teammates never stack like this and 2nd of all it’s not efficient when you count Healing per mana spent. Putting talents and PvP talent will require too much effort. Most likely R Shaman will decide to play no set pieces in PvP. Outlaw is even worse. Due to 50% nerf in PvP your set actually LOWERS YOUR DAMAGE instead of increasing it. Yes, I’m not wrong… That’s not everything though. Stat distribution on set pieces also determines which spec will be the best for some classes. Good example is Mage. Lack of haste makes Frost worse while big amount of Mastery benefits Fire the most. Arcane even though prefers Haste also benefits from Mastery so it’s not that big of a deal. On the other hand since sets are universal and available also to PvE players you cannot really have Haste/Versa on every piece as PvE Mage players might want Crit and Mastery over Versa.

In conclusion I’m glad sets are back but since they were brought back they created actually more issues. Some specs just don’t play them. It shouldn’t be like that you don’t want your tier either because of it’s bonus or stats that you lose. The easiest solution would be to disable them in PvP but do we want this? I would prefer Blizzard to create a separate PvP set. Either one bonus for the whole set like it was pre-Legion or optimaly create one each season. Single set for every content doesn’t work so far for the reasons I mentioned above. I’d love Blizzard to address it in the next tier. It will also benefit PvE players as there would be no complaints on the bonus or stats. The only argument against it was “I don’t want two sets of gier for both contents” but anyway it will be like that no matter what you do because most specs want different stats in PvP and PvE.

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The acquisition issue is 100% due to the delay on the catalyst.
While I was lucky enough to grab all the 5 pieces within 3 normal raid runs. This is far from the normal acquisition rate.

If the catalyst was online by week 2 or as soon as the world first is over and done, then everyone would be having a more even tier set progression

PS: for all that is good and holy, please break down the walls of text into smaller paragraphs

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Raiders get raid gear easier then people who don’t raid :hushed::rage:

Just general class balance

Probably a good solution as that’s what they did originally

There are mostly 2 issues i have with tier sets.

1: No catalyst until much later
2: stats.

Both can be resolved, point n1 is obvious what the solution is.

Stats can be solved in 2 ways.

Either full stat reforging, but only applicable to tier set pieces. Or, you can fully reforge everything, but it’s either on a cooldown, or it requires some kind of resource.

Or, the tier set is no longer an item, but rather it’s an “enchant”, or rather a token which doesn’t conflict with the actual enchanting profession, and you can put it on a piece of armor you have currently equipped. And then, higher levels of content reward you with a stronger tier set.

For example, let’s take enhancement shaman tier set, let’s say that the lfr level would be what’s currently the tier set, so 24% mastery after sunder, and 100% more damage on chain lightning after sundering yada yada.

On normal it would be like 30% mastery, and 110% more damage, on heroic, 34/35% and on mythic 40%.

Solution n1 is probably better, because n2 would lead to people not wanting to use the token until they have the perfect piece of loot.

This could be solved with token extraction though.

Also, the token itself should be upgradable just like any other piece of loot.

Don’t misunderstand though, i still like tier set as it is, i just think it could be a bit better.

Yes, Catalyst being delayed so much makes absolutely no sense. World First raiders are of no consequence and should not dictate the pace of the game in any way (or the raid difficulty, as Blizzard have admitted to and fixed after the clustertruck that was Shadowlands).

Even in PvE it’s a bit stupid stat-wise. Example: Resto Druid S1 Tier has some items (when being catalyst-ed) turn into versa + crit/haste/mastery or crit + haste/mastery. Very rarely do we catalyze into haste + mastery.
Resto Druids have Crit/Versa as dead last on their preference of secondary stats. We love Haste/Mastery.
I can farm non-set items from M+ or Raid that have Haste/Mastery, but if I want Tier, I deliberately gimp my secondaries by using the Catalyst.
Worse off, if I catalyst non-tier items (boots, belt, bracers, cloak) they also turn into potentially wrong secondaries (versa+crit for example) even though originally (let’s say my “perfect” bracers) the item was haste + mastery.

It makes no sense why this happens.

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Yeah dividing the playerbase yet again sounds great…
Seriously this would be such a bad idea that I am speechless…really really bad…

It’s not dividing anything. It would basically turn the tier set effect into gear, which would also be upgradable itself.

It’s no more divisive to the community that current gear is, in other words, it isn’t.

Whether you agree on the idea or not is a different story, but think a little bit more before you speak.

Either way, reforge works fine. But they need to do something about these awful stats.

I did think quite a lot before saying something.I am not the biggest fan of the current gear iteration either.So I am still against it.So you think before posting ideas like this,because not everyone might be on board.

Your point was that it would divide the community even more, which is not true, it wouldn’t do anything much more significant than what current gear does.

At the moment you can already get almost mythic level gear just with heroic raids/m+ equivalent, and crafting.

Unless you consider the ilvl difference between normal heroic and mythic divisive, which i mean… Higher content should reward higher levels of gear because obviously.

There is a significant problem with this that you didn’t point out though, the grind would never end, you get normal tier, well guess what, now you have heroic and mythic, so that’s definitely not very good. This is a way bigger problem than whatever dividing the community means.

We dont share the same opinions.
You lost me at social ladders…and duh…
So whatever I don’t care anymore.

It’s not about opinions, it’s about facts.

Fact is current gear system needs some tweaks too before I can say its actually good.And adding more things of the same it is now,would be worse imo anyway.
You posted the idea and It was your opinion so I replied with mine.
Or does your opinion matter more?
I would like better tier for my Dh too…if I ever get any but not by dividing it into 7 difficulties.

Reforging would work better to allow us to shift stats to what’s actually needed.

Aside that, i think loot is actually pretty good right now.

You have crests, flighstones are kinda whatever, not really needed, you can get almost to mythic level gear just with heroic, and you have some especially powerful pieces that drop from the raid.

I think it’s fine, aside no catalyst at the start, and poor stat distribution because they have to make tier sets with 2 to 4 specs in mind.

And then you have crafting which is also nice. And allows you to create a piece of gear that is actually competitive, and make it with exactly the stats you need.

So I did all of Aberrus on normal and heroic - Not a single tier piece. I’m tilted stuck at 2/4 :neutral_face: Gonna log out till vault

bring back personal loot. group loot is trash. did almost every raid full clear and only got 1 piece out of it. Group loot is a scam

I like this

Nah

Did 3 normal runs, got 2 pieces from loot and 1 from vault

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