For next patch we see some changes and tuning for Rogues.
Now it’s time for redesign or fix Backstab. We all know in PvP and mostly in PvE you can’t stay behind your target (yes i’m talking about Tanks cause they spin around for NO reason most of the time in M+) so the bonus of Backstab is 95% useless.
We need Blizz to fix this. Make it like Mutilate from Assa or something. It’s impossible to benefit from Backstab cause your target is ALWAYS moving.
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I completely agree. Backstab was originally designed for much more static encounters than what we have today. Back in the days, many bosses were basically glorified target dummies so Blizzard had to spice things up by e.g. giving backstab positional requirements. But today boss and dungeon mechanics are much more complicated and fast paced, so abilities with positional requirements just feel outdated.
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They should add 2 new abilities: Frontstab and Sidestab, so you always have something to press adapted to the situation and positioning, right?
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Backstab became some former shadow of itself, serving today as a tickleing combo filler between dances for Sub. I think position requirement is ok when you get proper reward for it. I think the problem here is the reward itself - too low dmg from behind, and to low energy cost the justify adding more dmg.
It would be very useful in PvP and PvE. Sorry, but personally, as I do M+, I havn’t any difficulties aiming the back of my target.
For now you can simply use Gloomblade instead of Backstab if it irritate you to that point. I simed my char dmg switching Weaponmaster/Gloomblade and it is no noticeable dmg difference when you have all the rest of the talents picked the most efficent way to content you play.
Me, personally would love to see Hemo back. A bonus to Rupture, 1h weapon again in my MH as it should be with Sub and no position requirements.
I personally liked it when backstab was ONLY usable from the back, but did like twice the damage / per player hp as compared to today. 500-600 dmg for 40 energy on 40k hp pools are a cruel joke, and one of the reasons i quit my rogue. The difference between sdance and outside of it is literally 4-5 times the damage.
Now the way backstab works, the attack will go off even when not behind for lower damage, and it’s not even worth it to play the mini-game of being behind the target in that exact split second for LITERALLY 100 DMG BONUS.
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Gloomblade should be baseline and should apply a stacking debuff that increases shadow damage taken x% or similar.
Promoting the use of a low damage builder for a bonus to high damage spenders.
As it stands it’s just so underwhelming and almost useless. In some occasions totally useless.
I think when it comes to Rogue design, the Devs don’t really put that much effort into it. Backstab used to be great, but encounter design and PvP has evolved way past something like “requires to be behind target” or “bonus damage when attacking from behind”, which is just another way to say “deals less damage, unless you do it from behind”.
I think making Gloomblade baseline, and just getting rid of Backstab would be fine. People mostly hang on to BS due to nostalgia, not because it is mechanically interesting, or feels special to use. Gloomblade has a bit of spice with the whole Shadow Damage thing, and I think focusing on the Shadow damage could help differentiate Sub from the other Specs in a meaningful and fun way.
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Totally. Perhaps shifting backstab over to assassination to simply rename ambush backstab.
Outside of shadow dance you are only using it as a CP generator anyway. Certainly not for damage. So it would be nice if it had an effect. Like every backstab makes your attacks ignore armour x% . Like the old expose armour.
Gloomblades fits the shadow theme of sub. Backstab doesn’t. Sadly it’s just not good. Like so many dead talents.
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I would always say that: I think a real fun is a choice instead of cutting things. When noone will tell you how exactly you must now play your favorite spec.
Trying to fix not only symptomes but the roots of recent problems players constatntly returning to in forums, I think the main class design goals that would make most of players happy are:
- make all class and specs viable in all content with proper talents and abilities - the goal Blizz class designers have since WotLK,
- balance all class and spec about max 5-10% difference between them, instead of forcing players to switch between viable specs/borrowed powers from patch to patch
- give back most of iconic abilities of all classes and specs, properly tuned to the modern game system with mandatory switching obligation between abilities who can’t exist next to each other for balance reasons,
- effects/abilities which can’t exist anymore, if possible, to return in form of glyphs,
- make WoW full modern game: easy to play/understand (easy to join to a group playing specific content, to understand progress systems) but enventually hard to master (with high end tactics, usage of all spells, environement and knowledge possible); both casuals and noncasuals friendly, both old and new players friendly and beeing respectful to both groups.
In summary to make WoW a game respecting its history, legacy, and fanbase: all kind of player’s types.
It’s the dream of mine 
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Borrowed powers are the reason BFA ended so horribly. And arguably started so horribly. And middle.
Basically they made BFA bad.
While covenant abilities are a diluted version of this - it’s still clear they are very hard to balance across every class / spec. Hence rogues having had all 4 covenants changed already.
Also conduit powers are another slight variation on borrowed power. I understand they are trying to appease the lovers of the old “talent” trees.
But in that case just make talent trees similar to covenant trees. Borrowed powers are horrible and in some cases make classes totally useless / OP with or without them.
BFA Gushing wounds.
Venthyr warrior …
Convoke
They have went slightly in the right direction after BFA (wasn’t hard). But covenants are clearly a deciding factor in performance. Which they claimed would not be the case.
I have to disagree here, because staying behind your target is crucial and something that I always try to do. Why? Because it is not only about backstab, but also becaue mobs/bosses can’t parry your attacks if you are standing behind them, so the DPS difference is very important.
As some others mentioned, making Gloomblade baseline would be very interesting though. I would love to see that, because it is a completely dead talent, but it is an ability that I would love to play with.
This.
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