Tinfoil hat time

Community General Discussion
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So as we know Blizzard is building up a climactic reveal that will make us see the Titans as less favorable in the future. From them trying to put their vision of order over the whole universe, to the Earthen finding out they are merley slaves to keep Azeroth(the world soul) in check. And also Sylvanas trying to find out what actually is true death and not the shadowlands. In my opinion, what is happening after Midnight will be her going to the Jailer again ans resurrect him for a flashy cutscene and story exposiiton. Sorta like a titanomachy. That will explain that the First Ones formed the magic forces we know of today and gave them all their purpose and each a pantheon to rule. But the Titans rebelled against them and put their own weight at the head of the cosmos. Like an original sin and prime betrayal of all mortal beings and worlds in the great dark beyond.

What do you think? Does this make sense in some way?

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How will you retcon in Sargeras rebelling against the rebellion?

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this isn’t contradicting each other. The First Ones were already gone by the time Sargeras got scared off by the Void Lords who want to eat the universe. This is a different topic alltogether.

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Is the Jailer “reanimateable” at his current state?

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There is a boss where we fight copies of the eternal ones despite them not having the personality of the real beings. I think whatever powers the Sepulcher should be able to give the Jailer a short refreshing before he drops dead again.

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Maybe not that, but as it was shown many times there are too many archives and lost knowledge we can dig up (in TWW we were unfolding some sorts of information in the titan facility chamber).

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new batteries, flick the switch and we’re in business.

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Not sure if the Jailor will be “revived” . Probably not , but I get the feeling the first once (referred in Shadowlands) are actually the Titans .

Sylvanas says it is too ordered , implying it was created by the titans . And the once that created the Shadowlands from the lore are supposedly the First Once hence
First Once = Titans .

I feel like the devourers and those weird humanoid things with them , are the actuall denizens of the shadowlands . I think it could be fun to explore where those things came from . They definitely are not robots .

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They aren’t. If they were Odyn wouldn’t be so adamant to share propaganda to make sure their existence is not known of by the mortal they feel like ordering around and see as their personal slaves.

Just because something was created doesn’t mean the Titans are behind it. When all cosmic forces have their own pantheon maybe that was just their way of making sure magic universe wide isn’t total chaos. And maybe the Titans broke that original order by making themselves the new gods.

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Why is it so obvious that “Ordered” implies the Pantheon of Order, and not the beings that supposedly made them beings of Order in the first place? Wouldn’t they, by that same logic, be the orderers of Order? Ultimate order? I always found this one odd. If you’re [general use of you] doubling down on them being of the cosmic power of Order, wouldn’t that in the same breath confirm the First Ones as the makers of Order in of itself? They’re only cosmic beings of Order as per the revelations that the First Ones created the cosmos and brought about the creation of the six cosmic powers. Otherwise, arguably, the term ‘Order’ is meaningless. It arguably only holds any real purpose in that specific context.

Wouldn’t it—thusly—make far more sense that Sylvanas is potentially referring to how the Shadowlands is too structured overall, and that the “veil” [pun intended] of the cosmic force of Death and its plane is merely a cog in the design from what actual, true death is?

Sylvanas Windrunner says: I know the truth of death better than most. This? It is too convenient. Too ordered.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/visions-of-a-shadowed-sun-questline-in-patch-11-2-7-rewards-and-playthrough-378852

And that Blizzard, rather than retconning the entirety of an expansion, are merely suggesting and recontextualizing that there is something more to the mystery of death?

Leaving the Shadowlands as is, with the implication that it’s all just a cog in the machine.

… Which we’ve already been told time and time again.

Any and all native beings slain in the cosmic planes are destroyed forever, including those native of the Shadowlands—disappearing, forever lost. Is that not … death? True death?

If a being of Death is killed on the mortal plane, their essence returns to the Shadowlands to be reformed, similar to how demons reform in the Twisting Nether.[13] However, if such a being—either the soul of a former mortal or a native being of the Shadowlands—is destroyed in the Shadowlands, they die permanently and their soul is lost forever. Their energy then disperses and joins the greater whole of the magic of Death.[77][84][85]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Shadowlands#Inhabitants

Like the other cosmic forces, beings of the Void can normally only be permanently killed in their realm. If killed in the mortal realm, their essence returns to the Void to reconstitute, though some exceptionally powerful forces can intervene in the process.[32]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Void#Void_realm

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Spot on yes. Thanks for the support.

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So where do beings of the Order planes, like Azeroth, go to reconstitute when they die? We were taught that we go to the Shadowlands. So either Shadowlands is indeed a “factory” belonging to the Order force of the universe, or we are beings of Death.

-=EDIT=-
And then, the ability to return from the Shadowlands to the normal realm, as we did with Ysera, is similar to Demons going back to the Twisting Nether and returning back to the normal plane by exchanging their place with another Demon.

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Order flooded the material plane. The Titans escaped their original purpose and became virtually immortal. Unlike their creations who died naturally.

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Maybe.

But given their lack of talent, the most probable things are:

  • It’s all a scheme from the dread-lords that have been cooking this thing for eons…
  • It’s all been a dream from Thrall. It’s still WC3, we havent left.
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Who ever said that what we call the Great Dark Beyond is the Plane of Order?

To the best of our knowledge, “Reality” is outside the cycle. For whatever reason.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Magic#/media/File:WoW_Chronicle_Magic.jpg

My own thoughts on this is that we originate and remain in the plane that the First Ones themselves, as well as the cosmic forces, were born from and in. Its barren appearance and characteristics potentially being a direct consequence and result of the missing First Ones. Or the countless invasions by the other forces and pantheons.

When the six cosmic forces were thrown into flux, the First Ones began dividing and ordering these categorically into their own planes; not entirely unlike how the Pantheon of Order dealt with the Elemental Lords on Azeroth. Potentially to draw upon them as was necessary to sustain the life they were creating and ordering in this plane—worldsouls.

I reckon a worldsoul is a nascent Pantheon-member and not a nascent Titan specifically.

Second: Attribute all accomplishments and works of wonder to the titans alone.

Despite the relentless arguments made by some of you, this is not a fallacy. After all, can anything truly be said to exist until it has been ordered? Of course not.

Therefore, it is irrefutable that the titans are the source of all creation.

Third: Do not share knowledge of the First Ones.

Mortals could not conceive of the wonders that the makers granted to the titans in Zereth Ordus. Thus, learning of the Progenitors would only confuse them.

It is enough that mortals know the titans brought Order to the cosmos, and that they are owed deference.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Edicts_of_the_Prime_Designate,_Volume_742

What we saw in Zereth Mortis was the same or similar process by which the Pantheon of Order too were once created just as the Pantheon of Death, with worldsouls infused into a printed prototype. The Titans, thus, once having been similar prototype automas in Zereth Ordus before they were infused with a worldsoul.

Additionally, our expiration by the hand of Death—our tether to the Shadowlands—is arguably not a one-off. The cosmic forces are all around us in this reality, impacting the day to day lives of mortals. Some crucial to their, our, evolution. As far as we’ve been told our perception of time as a mortals is directly influenced by Order; not to mention our souls a described personification of the force of Life.

Living mortals are influenced by the cosmic force of Order and perceive time as a progression of instants; regular and determinant, functioning much like a clockwork.[10] Without a tether to their mortal plane, they no longer have the same perception.[11]

The soul is the very personification of an individual and is anchored to the body by the cosmic force of Life.[13] When a mortal being dies, their soul crosses the Veil between life and death and enters in Oribos in the Shadowlands, where they are judged by the Arbiter who send them to appropriate afterlives.[14] Every living soul brings with it a vital force known as anima.[15]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Mortal

The other cosmic forces unquestionably have their own parts to play.

Whether revealed or as of yet to be revealed.

Addendum

It’s worth nothing as well that the Shadowlands isn’t the only place that can serve as a mortal afterlife. We have more than one example of druids transitioning into the Emerald Dream upon death, with various obvious questions as to the who, how and why of that process. But it arguably makes sense, all things considered.

The spirits of departed animals on Azeroth can travel to the Emerald Dream as their afterlife, with the mighty G’Hanir in particular serving as the home to the spirits of winged creatures.[20] A few members of the green dragonflight such as the former Dragons of Nightmare came here after dying. Some druids, such as Elerethe Renferal and Thaon Moonclaw, do as well, though it is unclear if all druids do.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Emerald_Dream#Characteristics

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I stay optimistic.

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I’ve been saying since N’zoth whispered “*She is not the last, but the first. Drown her and you will see.” *
Azeroth is a reset button on the universe, shadowlands, emerald dream and all. She’s gonna wake up and be all “Nah lads, you messed this up, try again” which is why she sleeps so long, is so powerful and everyone wants to keep her asleep or kill her.
I think it’s gonna be that she is GOD not a god like the old gods or a god like the titans, but actual prime mover, made the whole universe GOD. Explains why all races that come to live on her surface end up so powerful in all manner of ways.

The Last Titan won’t be Azeroth, it will be Sargeras and we’re going to take his side to stop her from resetting the whole thing. Illidan is going to tell us he was wrong and Sargeras was right because Space Satan won’t be the bad guy when he’s written by Modern™ Blizzard.

Once his burning crusade is over, he’ll take back his original mantle of keeping the demons in check, much like Lucifer in the show Lucifer went back to hell to run it again.

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Jailer was a weak character in Shadow lands that was not well received .it is a done and dusted npc .it’s not coming back apart from some conspiracy laded YouTube content creators mind imaginary imagination .