Today is russian bg day

PVP Battlegrounds
21

No. Most of Bgs I play whole horde team are 900-1000k players.

I don’t know if it’s a problem that the Alliance poorly geared, but I assure you that your % are not what I normally see.

Make the leveling more difficult and longer, you will see how more than one person will lose their desire.

I would prefer not to have a 30% penalty on my strength and HP when a 1000k warrior or Dh or MM Hunter attacks me while im defending alone a base in 15man bgs.

I’m sorry, but it seems like a crazy idea to me. :wink:

22

mein freund monk when ppl refer to russians u know very well which russians they mean, and u dont have a problem with them cuz they are horde, and u too are horde, free wins noone is hating russians, only that particular grp of 20 ppl chilling in voice chat farming gy

23

Expanding the Great Vault to PvP was a big mistake in my opinion. With the Conquest cap in place for the first few months of every season, it meant that everyone would be on an even playing field with regards to gear. However, the Great Vault has caused a massive disparity in gearing from the second week of Season 3 of DF already.

The ease of levelling up alts only makes things worse as people keep bringing fresh characters into BGs with each passing day and they’re having to go up against fully Conquest-geared players just six weeks (?) into the season.

24

He does very much have a problem with that particular group as they drag out games instead of playing objectives. He even sabotaged their attempts to GY farm and was mass reported in a bid to remove him from the BG.

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25

If they mean they are bothered by Larkus (Ларкуш), they should specify that Larkus bothers them and don’t blame the entire Russian community of BG players who have nothing to do with him. The reason why players dislike him is because he

A) syncs multiple groups and brings more premade players than is allowed.
B) camps graveyards for honorable kills.

As Xinesha says, I flamed them fairly recently for this myself. You can even read it up in that other thread. Blaming him as an individual for what he does is fair, but it has nothing to do with his nationality.

People also spread false rumors and lies about Russian players in general.
Some players give up as soon as they see cyrillic letters, even if we end up winning the round in spite of them bringing the team down.

The truth is that Russian players are not at all different from players from other nations on the european pool. Some are good, some are bad, some play in premades, some solo, just like everyone else.
And if you think otherwise, you better show me some damn good evidence.

26

they dont specify the name cuz they cant make out what his name is since the name is in russian, alliance in my games only complain when they are vs him, they dont see random russian names and go on a rant, at least from my experience

27

this is so true! my main content is pve and i pvp just for fun. with current system you better play multiple druids instead of only 1. feels like legi grind in legion with alt army :man_facepalming:

i never pick pvp vault because of that.

most russian bgs im in they farm the graveyard and dont want to win the round asap which is the most annoying thing.

28

Seems we actually agree on something, gear progression in PVP is just stupid to me. It always creates a gulf between the 2 sides, especially when premades are brought into the equation. The only progression real players should want is that of themselves progressing and getting better at the game and their class, something that can be very difficult to achieve when you’re just being aoe farmed by groups of top geared players so often.

29

I’m not here to show you any evidence because you aren’t showing any, but I will still comment on this because you’re either selectively blind or have a horse in this race or whatever – and you’re just spreading false information.

I originate from a country that used Russian as one of their national languages and I spent years playing on Russian realms. The differences in mentality, in methods to achieve goals, in approaches to gaming overall are all blatantly obvious to both us and to them – the very same Russians I knew and talked with comment on these very differences a lot. Of course, “some are good” and “some are bad” and so on. It doesn’t change the reality of the bell curve and that Russians are prone to use anything to achieve victory and they aren’t too shy about bending the rules when it’s technically possible, which includes joining as premades in random battlegrounds and graveyard farm to their hearts’ content.

30

My horse in this race is that I speak Russian fluently, hence I know a lot of Russian players and sometimes play in their pool when I group up with my Russian friends. I find the rumors that are spread about them to be untrue and frankly bewildering.

I have also observed a pattern that those who cry the loudest about Russians and claim that they allegedly cheat are oftentimes mediocre players themselves. Always with a below average performance on the scoreboard for dps / hps / objectives.

The non-Russian players on the european pool would never do that, right?

You might have a point with this one. The mentality of most Russians is better and other european players should aspire to be more like them in this regard. Never when I played in a Russian team have I heard the phrase “Oh no, it’s the French” or “damn German cheaters”.
They would just play as good as they could and oftentimes win.

What do I get with westerners? Joined a group of two German friends playing together, one monk in our team writes “It’s a Russian premade, stay lying down.” (He meant, don’t release your spirit when you are farmed at the GY.)

Those Russians weren’t a premade, and if they were, they were a weak one. What ended up happening is that we mopped the floor with them and 3-0 stomped them into the ground.

Same in this forum. Just last week someone wrote about a fantasy of a “protest” where they would just run into the middle of the field, get killed by the Russian opponent team, and do nothing all round. Excuse me? That’s no protest, that’s pathetic. Good players would defeat the Russians instead.

What is it with some westerners and this whiny attitude? Don’t you see how this only acts as a self-fulfilling prophecy and reduces your win chances? Play against Russians like you would against every other opponent. If you win, you win, if not, GG because your opponents were better.

31

You’d never hear that about Frenchmen or Germans from anyone on English realms as well so I don’t exactly see your point. It could be due to the sole reason that these language groups didn’t get this kind of reputation by repeatedly creating unfair advantages for themselves. So it’s a little wonder that Russians have less for them to complain about. Who are they going to whine about? Other Russians?

But funnily enough, they actually do complain. A lot. About everything. I’m surprised by your observations and I’m a bit inclined to disbelieve you on other points which you will make in that regard as well.

Oh, you don’t say! I’d better shut up, then. I sure don’t want to get shoved into with these guys and become outed as another baddie!

I didn’t hear any cries here yet, though, to be honest. And, personally, I’m not the one for crying myself. I’ve never left any BG – not a single one – because it was a losing one (and today I’ve met a couple of posters from this very thread who did exactly that). I also don’t get discouraged by enemy premades and I don’t throw if the team isn’t at the getting farmed at the respawn point yet. What I was doing is merely stating observable facts there, with zero emotions attached and zero tears shed.

I’ve read your posts here and I agree with you on multitude points that you usually make. But not this one. It wasn’t that long ago that you yourself wrote here in other thread that you would leave an epic battleground if you see a big enemy premade forming on the opposite side – “and go play some arenas instead”, I believe the exact phrasing was.

Twenty organized people in a forty men battleground can and will create more or less the same impact on the outcome as five organized people in a ten men battleground. You can win with forty randoms versus twenty preorganized people and twenty other randoms but it will be as hard and unfair as winning against five plus five on the normal battleground. And one is exactly as bad as another, with the only difference being that in the former case you would additionally need to apply third-party tools.

I would even argue that impact of a five men premade on the smaller BG is worse because the objectives are also scaled down, and it’s much easier to achieve them in a smaller group.

And we finally get to where your racing horse was buried. Of course you would like that, given that you like being in a similar premade on the Russian side as well. It’s much more fun when the victim is at least trying to resist, isn’t it?

32

it 100% is. you’re not just guaranteeing 5 gearcapped players with consumables in a 2 healer / 3 dps set up, you’re denying yourself the chance of getting 5 fresh geared characters on your team that are total dead weight and can’t 5v1 a fel guard.

at least 5 man premades are following the current rules though.

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33

The unfair advantages we are talking about are queue sync / premade raids, and other europeans do participate in them just as some Russians do.

At least they don’t instantly give up when they are up against a team from a different nation. This is a phenomenon I observe exclusively in German and English teams when they are up against the Russians.

I can’t say anything about you because I haven’t seen you play bgs. I am just saying that according to my subjective observations, players who complain a lot about Russian opponents tend to be below average, whereas good players typically defeat them like any other opponent, and hence don’t complain.

Queue syncing is bending the rules, 5 man premades are allowed by design.
If it is explicitly allowed, it is not unfair.
You just have to accept that a solo player or smaller group may not be as effective as 5 coordinated people if you play solo or in smaller groups.

I faced Pandora in EOTS today, full 5 stack.
I only had a DH with me, the rest of the team were casuals on both sides.
They steamrolled us, but I don’t complain about that. They are allowed to do that. I could have brought four of my best fighters myself and it could have been an even match, but I only brought one, so I can blame myself for that.

My best fighters are roughly equal to their best in terms of skill. When I have a group of 3-5 of my best and we face them, the matches are usually very close and we have pulled it off to defeat them a few times. Typically though I play in much smaller premades. Just duos 50% of the time.

My attitude is just gather your own friends and fight back.

To stand an equal chance against queue syncing premades, you would have to gather 20 people and also queue sync, that is, bend the rules. It would be one-sided in over 90% of the times and completely boring. There are not that many other premade raids around.

This is why I don’t do it.
If I could be sure to only face other premade raids If I build a premade raid, I would do it.

Sometimes I play bgs with my Russian friend Геккар. I see him queue for bgs, click on quick join and we queue as duo in the Russian pool. How is that even different from when I queue with Hühnchen, for instance? Both are allowed by design.

I wouldn’t mind Leeches idea of a % based handicap the more players you bring in the group btw. I think it’s a pretty good idea.

34

I won’t press further after this post of mine so, after that, we would just agree to disagree. I will still adress some points for the last time.

Again, this is a bell curve situation here. Everyone does it from time to time but Russians do it considerably more often. Noticeably more. This is the problem. Your chances of meeting Russian premade when you are against any Russian group is way higher than meeting a premade created from other language groups or a multilingual premade when you are against these other teams. That very statement is not equal to neither:
– all Russians are guilty of premading;
– none of English realms people are guilty of premading.

I understand that and I was trying to move away from a personal angle there. It’s irrelevant to the topic whether the people who notice premades are whiners and habitual losers or not and it’s also irrelevant whether they decide to stand their ground or avoid confrontation, whether they win in the end or they lose. Russians tend to preorganize themselves regardless of how others perceive them, these issues aren’t remotely related. Sometimes people confuse random Russian groups with premades, that does happen. But it happens rarer than you attempt to show, and as another person with some knowledge about Russian PvP inner kitchen, I can attest for that myself.

And of course you didn’t see me playing, we play on the same side! It’ll be mathematically harder for us to meet than for either of us to encounter, for example, enemy premades, which is because you’re also premading and thus creating less spots for randoms to fill. By the way, this is also part of an argument why premades aren’t so good for the faction they are playing in.

No objection against your first point, fundamentally disagree on your second. “Unfair” doesn’t mean “bad”, “unfair” means “unfair”, and five organized people against five disorganized is objectivelly unfair (thus, less pleasant for the participants). If it isn’t obvious to you, consider similar situation happening in arenas. Will you be on equal grounds when you’re queueing for skirmishes solo and then facing an actual high-ranking team against you three hapless dorks? You can win and you can even have fun, but don’t you dare say it was fair for you. The disparity created in WSG with five-plus-five premades is lower but it’s still there.

And, by the way, I also didn’t back down on full team premades from the Russians, them doing queue synching stuff and all that.

And when does this attitude should stop being applied? You draw the line at five people but others will draw it at forty because they aren’t getting banned. Some others will say, “nah, two or three should be max”.

Personally, I won’t do this. I don’t need anything from BGs but my time well spent, and I love the chaotic element of them the most – the moments where your personal ability shines and you alone make the day. Engaging in sporadically occuring small-time fights, tricking enemies with obscure devices from older expansions, rousing them with ridiculous flags and activities to chase you across the whole map, doing objectives solo against all odds, and so on. I tried premading before, many times since they first made these battlegrounds available long time ago in Vanilla, but I never had fun.

You’re on the opposite side of me in this sense, and I won’t claim that your interest in premading and tactical approach isn’t valid. It’s just you have this whole big and relatively popular separate mode open for you to fulfill your needs, and I can chase mine only in random BGs and nowhere else. The last mode for me which I still need to share with all kinds of premades, big and small alike, that usually do nothing but farm honor levels by repeatedly killing their 650k HP terribly discouraged opponents.

Still, overall, you’re a cool guy, and I’ve exhausted all the points twice already, so continuing would mean repeating myself again.

35

Then allow me to quickly do the same.

All I’m saying is that it’s counterproductive to automatically assume that and to tell your team you are up against a Russian premade if the opponents are Russian. It demoralizes your team and has no positive effects. Just play like you normally would. Teams that play normally tend to win more often against Russians.

It’s pretty subjective, in other words.
I personally only perceive it as unfair when people bend the rules or break them by cheating, hacking, DDOS or glitching. You don’t see a lot of outright rule breaking in WoW, compared to other games, it is relatively cheater free, but you see a lot of people circumnavigating the 5 man rule.

Opinions on this vary from person to person and this has been controversially discussed in the forums and is still discussed today. I draw the line exactly where the developers draw the line, at 5. I basically think the rules are good as they are, but they should really enforce them better so that premade raids don’t make epic bgs so one-sided.

My preferred methods would be an increasing penalty for declining queues - because premade raids only join when they can get everyone in, and also mixing teams between alliance and horde so getting in the same team wouldn’t be guaranteed, much like in blitz. With these two measures in place, premade raids wouldn’t be a thing anymore.

Sure it feels great to carry a bg on your own. But sometimes one person isn’t quite enough.

I know winning strategies for every bg there is, but they are hard to execute if you only have unreliable players in your team who do random nonsense instead of playing objectives.
For example, if your team controls hangar on IoC, the correct play is to destroy the enemy glaives. I can’t do it on my own, I’m a healer. I need some muscle to do it for me. If I queue up with 1-2 dps, they can do it for me. I can make calls in the chat, but the rate at which random players listen to calls varies greatly from round to round.

I can either pick the flag and carry it in twin peaks or I can try to return ours in twin peaks, but I can’t do both on my own simultaneously. And random players tend to ignore the objective on flag maps entirely most of the time it seems.

I hate to lose due to the sheer incompetence of random mates. 1-2 reliable friends is the sweet spot to compensate for that. This is how I play bgs most of the time, but if more friends ask if we have room, I’ll allow them too up to the limit of 5.

Rated bgs used to be cool, now there are few players, you meet booster teams all the time, tanks and healers are a huge bottleneck that make building a team very time consuming. Nobody wants to play as a healer or tank. The people that apply to your groups are oftentimes not quite the best. If you just invite everyone who applies and aren’t selective, you can fill your team quicker, but won’t make it very far. The ladder is deflated. At 1.8 mmr, you fight a lot of people with 2.4 RBG and glad xp etc.

To put it in a nutshell, there are lots of issues with RBGs in their current state.

I am looking forward to solo rated bgs in the next expansion. They have the potential to become my favorite mode. The main issue with RBGs is not that people don’t want to play bgs at a competitive level appropriate to their skill level, but that they cba with all the organizational effort just to disband after one loss.

Thanks, likewise.

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36

Yeh its realy hard to kill them when they fly in the air and then teleport all over the spot…
Managed to kill them with AoE damage but kept saying I was out of range when they was about 2 yards away from me…

37

I don’t even understand how we can allow russians to play with us… I hope Microsoft/Activision will get a fine about that. Did other countries played soccer or other sports with the german during the world wars ?

More important, for cultural reasons (mostly political tolerance about hacking), a lot of video games cheaters are present in Russia, in every game…

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38

I believe they did, yes.

I had a poetic little image add to this post, but… Trust Level :unamused:
You can Google ‘Christmas Truce’ in No Mans Land though, if you’d like to read about it.

39

It’s such a typical example of frustration building up and someone has to be the scapegoat.
This is not because they are Russians this is because they are cheaters circumventing the queue rules so they can get in with their premades. Just as many non Russians are cheating in this game as well.

Again if you want to be frustrated be frustrated with Blizzard who is turning the blind eye to this and forgetting it’s because of their own flawed design that this is happening,

40

No, most sports like FIFA World Cup and Olympics were put on hold during WW2.