Toxic and brainless whispers after random bg as dh

Classes Demon Hunter
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Did some random bgs on my dh today as farming honor is the only thing i really do before prepatch/sl, i did like 17m damage not that its sickening much, it was second in all and we won but it was a close call.

Got a whisper from what i guess is a player that got killed by me:

“Enjoy your brainless spec for the last week cause next week when corruptions are not gonna work anymore Havoc will be in the gutter where it belongs and you will be crying to your mom in your basement appartment cause everyone will be oneshotting you and you will be bottom dps in everything you play”

Logged out before i could answer :slight_smile: Was gonna say something like “Well its my alt and third prioritized character so ill survive”

Its fun and all, i just laugh of stuff like this - But it does prove a point, its huge scale whining like this that has gotten havoc nerfed to pieces.

DH as the newest character, been decent in most kinds of content - Now community sees the spec being totally nerfed and gimped as justice, its not about balance, its “What we deserve”

Makes me wonder, are we supposed to be garbage for a long time now? Blizz bends for the demands of crying kids on the forums?

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DHs were, as far as I am aware (not played one so take this with a grain of salt) carried by borrowed power, partially because they were introduced in the expansion that introduced the hardcore borrow-power carry of classes. As such, they were probably designed specifically at their core with their Legion artifact in mind, thus making the core of the spec pretty lackluster and shallow from a design standpoint.

As for the “justice” of it all, I wouldn’t consider gutting DH and making it trash a good move at all, if that’s what’s happening.
Classes that utterly dominate for a very long time (looking at you, PvP resto druid. And also, well, destro lock, which I am) should definitely be taken down a peg, but Blizzard tend to be way, WAY too overzealous when they finally bother to swing the nerf bat towards a former favorite.
If I end up completely stomping on Demon Hunters by default in SL it won’t be a fun experience, I’ll feel as bad for them as I do for enhancement shamans.

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Yeah all of this is true, designing a class around borrowed power is not a very smart move, at least not for future expansions where the borrowed power the class was designed around is gone.

Meanwhile, i dont buy that from either blizz or community either:

“But the class is designed around borrowed power and there is nothing from the past to give back to dh”

They say this like its impossible to redesign the class, give them something new then. Cheap excuse.

Dunno if that is whats happening but it sure seems so. I dont main dh, but i play it as an alt, now its like why should i bother? Consequence is dh players will just play something else.

And this. There are dps specs far more “op” then dh, but them being former favourites allows them to get away with more, community has been brainwashed to accepting rogues, mages, locks, druids +++ being far stronger in pvp then dh ever was ever since vanilla and i dont expect this do change anytime.

And while fewer people speak about firemages, destrolocks, rogues etc. no one speak about shamans, being gimped once again but i guess they also are “Supposed to be bad”

Same goes with ret pala, “Supposed to be bad” and whenever classes that are “supposed to be bad” performs decent in anything community yells “NERF” to the point where blizz bends over and obeys.

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I’d say primarily by furious gaze and insane haste values with corruption, though even in 8.2 having 3x furious gaze was just good in all scenarios. In SL the effect of Furious gaze is now baseline, but basically only 1 trait instead of 3. Without that baseline it would feel really bad to play DH tbh.

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Honestly ever since I started this character in pre patch Legion I never really bothered with PvP ( it just sucks anyway).

But the basic toolkit is pretty meh if you look at it : your movement abilities can get nullified with simple roots/snares.
You can get destroyed in a single stun if you don’t have trinket and your burst phases have big red flags telling others to avoid/cc you.

So long as they focus on layers of borrowed power and not the actual classes, DH will always have that weird taste (and other classes too).

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Funny story because I was playing my DH which I really enjoy playing for the ease and mobility as well as the fantasy etc. and I went in a BG a few times.

It didn’t take long to realize that as a DH people almost turned from what they were doing to target me, some even at the expense of targeting my team’s healers!

So I decided a good tactic was to lead the group away from the healer and their flag, I did it, it bought healer time and I died but it didn’t matter because he survived and another teammate capped the flag! I then got a torrent of abuse from the healer for running away so he can’t heal me and I mean like lines of abuse in multiple messages, this guy was really trying his best to insult me!

I decided not to do PVP after that because I really just CBA to explain my actions to toxic cretins like that. If I was a better person maybe I would have taken the time to explain. Guess I’m not!

Back in WoTLK DKs got a fair bit of abuse too and I wondered if monks would get the same but maybe it only happens to hero classes?

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DKs had tremendous hate from WotLK and Cata but for good reason, unlike DH they were insane overpowered and seen as warrior 2.0, completely dominating everything without much effort.

Monks had their share too but not to the extend of DH/DK and yet they are more mobile than DH if you actually take the time to play one and look at their abilities/talents.

DH, were made for Legion with artifacts in mind. So sadly their basic toolkits were and still are barebones without borrowed powers. The leech on its first release was quite insane, that one is true. But Blizzard kept nerfing over and over after Legion.

The class itself isn’t that insane monster, outside of Eyebeam or Meta (which are heavily telegraphed and not hard to kick/cc), a DH is basically a sitting duck in PvP. Vengeful retreat doesn’t remove roots but only snares and have to be used properly to be good ( as in turn the camera a certain way), fel rushes gets nullified with simple snares and roots just makes them non existent.

Blur isn’t that insane either, you get 50% evade + some damage reduction vs Rogue or Warrior evasion/riposte with 100% dmg avoided. The hate still continues mostly due to uninformed players keeping the meme alive and the class being flashy.

No idea when it’ll end though, we got quite nerfed for Shadowlands so maybe that’ll make people stop being ignorant fools but I doubt it.

People don’t usually like to search for themselves and buy anything that suits their ideas.

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This kind of person from random BG is just plain bad. If he cannot counter DH, his problem. He will be crying again in SL when he gets his butt kicked from different class or even “gutted DH”. :slight_smile:

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I’ll miss the Blade Dance dodge it was badass in PvE and fits the theme of an agile warrior.

Hell even its cd was increased right ?

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CD wasn’t increased. Only your haste stat reduced. Which means that the CD is now longer, but will shorten eventualy.

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Ive met many dhs in world pvp and I have to say that I have completely lost some tolerance to Havoc just because of the demon form leech making them really hard to kill.

I dont hate the players or anything, I am just baffled at how some devs designs specs.

Autobubble Legion paladins.

Stampeding losing bm hunters.

Wotlk season 1 ret paladins.

Armor penetration 1 button bladestorm warriors.

1 macro ret paladins.

Demon form leech.

Dks ressing back and exploding.

This is the kind of designs that makes many people lose it sadly. Bad designs that carries specs to winning. It should be skill levels, not things like insane leech or pets doing all damage.

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Highly doubtful. The (hate)train will go on as dh are performing anything near decent in any kind of content.

The people keeping the meme alive are the same people who sees the nerf as “Justice” - For all of this expansion, and also Legion, they have been hearing “OP DH ! DELETE DH! NERF HAVOC!!!” and from there jumped on the train themselves yelling the same without doing any kind of fact-checking.

Therefore the same group of people dont see the SL-nerfs for DH as balance. They see it as justice, vengeance, revenge. The only thing that is fair now is DH being rock bottom everywhere.

DH becomes one of those “Supposed to be bad”-specs where community will yell “OMG ITS OP!!! NERF !!!” whenever the spec performs mediocre, anything over bottom tier.

And you will daily see those threads were some butthurt player starts threads “DELETE DH !!! DELETE THIS CLASS!!! NERF THIS SPEC !!! ITS OP!!!” because a DH killed them ingame.

No matter how much nerfs DH will spec, these threads will be spammed, because these people will yell “OP” “NERF” etc. because they will forever refuse to realize the strong possibility that they lost because the other player was better then them.

Also a problem in general. But it will be very relevant to dh now and in the future.

You forgot to mention destrolocks and firemages oneshotting geared people with spamming one button (CB and GP)

And “Hard to kill” dhs, what about warlock tanks?

Imo. some classes and specs will forever get away with more, because they are “Old favourites” - “Supposed to be good” vs “Supposed to be bad”

You mention ret pala, but not warlocks and mages, not to even mention rogues. Retpala is a wheelchair spec and another example of “Supposed to be bad” an you mentioning them and not current lock, mage and rogue for 15 years kind of illustrates that pretty well.

Enh. shaman, also “Supposed to be bad”

Imagine if ret pala, enh shaman switched places with subrogue and the mage specs in upcoming dps tier list in SL.

I believe it would have been anarchy on these forums. Blizz always bends for the cries on the forums regarding this.

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If you play WoW for PvP and actual decent PvP based on skill you’d better check the other games with clear focus on PvP and genuine balance without 30 classes and spec + gear being a factor.

This is why the games that have high audience + competitive scene are those where you can just come and go. Only the player reactions and abilities truly matter. Not every game can offer this and certainly not WoW or any MMORPG.

I genuinely never saw a single patch or expansion with mages being bad. Especially Frost. Even Rogues or Warlocks with 3 dps specs had bad days.

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Its true, and remember all the times rogue have had completely broken and op specs.

Yet you see when people are naming broken specs and previously broken specs, like this guy in this thread, what does he mention?

3 examples of ret paladins, bm hunter, dks, and a few others.

Ret pala have been one of the specs that have been nonemeta, none fotm the most. Yet people are still buthurt that they had their prime a couple of times a long time ago.

Mages, locks, rogues, get no mention, cause they are “SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD”

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People are just hating the class, because it is that class. Most of them only mention leech as the most broken thing, but none of them ever mentioned the truly OP things which I could agree on. And leech is certainly not one of them. Simply because every decent player, who knows how leech works, can outplay it easily.
So to remind you: In order for leech to heal, the player must do some damage.
DH has no “oh, heal me button” which some classes have.
Also everybody mentions leech while there is demonic appetite which is stronger and certainly more broken healing compenent than leech ever was. Traits which provide you with additional soulgenaration or increase the benefits of it are the true selfhealers.
But for one to underestand, he just needs to be got at the game. Which majority of DH haters are not.
Most of them just fill the numbers of clueless idiots, who have no idea about other classes and just ride the hate trains.

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You are absolutely right. I was a “DH hater” myself, not to the degree mentioned but i defo have come up with some memes about easy rotation and other stuff.

Ive been maining ret/holy pala, and secondmaining uh/frost dk. Mained alot of other specs in the past, dh not among them.

Monk never appealed to me and i was bored and i wanted something mobile, so i started playing my dh more seriously.

Now “Seriously” is a relative term. To Savix or Method etc. my gameplay is not “Seriously” but i have managed to do Cutting Edge finally and pushed most m+ dungeons up to 20, and 2200 rating now on three chars.

So im not a pro or in any kind an awesome player but playing at these levels do give some insight.

What i am left with:

Havent been raiding on DH, but m+ and 2v2 and 3v3, just above 2200 in both.

Did i have an easier time with dh in m+ and arena contrary to pala and dk? Not in a degree that matters. While im more experienced in the two other classes, havoc have some big weaknesses, one of them being cced.

Ask the majority of haters on forums how to play havoc in 3v3 and you will get the answer “LOL KEK JUST PUSH 2 BUTTONS AND TO 100k DPS ROFLMAO GIT GUD” and i bet just most of them havent even heard of dampening and mana rift.

The dps output in m+ ive been doing on these three classes are about the same when equally geared. One can argue its because ive played pala/dk much more. But i bet it wouldnt make a difference if i rolled fury warr, assa rogue, mage or whatnot.

The “3 button rotation” is a meme, and a lie. These people define themselves what is part of your rotation and not.

At the same time they define whats part of their rotation and not.

If you are gonna put it down to baseline rotation spells, all specs have just the simple rotation, maybe 1 button more to press or 2 for a few.

Both in pve and pvp i use heck load of buttons, what the heck does it have to say if you have 2 or 3 or 4 baseline abilities when you have to press 20 different ones to perform?

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Cause people are just salty they lost bg or got killed a lot in there, in my 1,3k days i have on this acc /played i got so many whispers like that even worse. Class you play does not matter some people are just too toxic or had a realy bad day and want to went it out.

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