Toxicity returns to wow - guilds will once again rob you of your gear :(

Community General Discussion
22

Master loot is way better than personal loot for guilds. A few bad egg guilds are the exception and not the rule.

3 Likes
23

This is dumb because most guilds will be upfront with how long the trial will take before you join the guild, they will be upfront about what loot is available for you and what loot you will wait priority on.

What guilds don’t like is putting effort into helping players that will abandon ship after they get an item. In a 25man raid there are 24 other people who put in work to get that item for the guild, they should be able to decide where best to put it. If you can’t wait 2 weeks of having lower priority on certain items then play in another guild or pug.

Master Loot is the best looting system, every loot system has its flaws depending on your perspective.

2 Likes
24

A few? Lol. The guilds that know how to distribute loot properly are few.

25

Complete nonsense, the people who make these kinda posts are people who didn’t play in guilds to begin with and the people who joined guild expecting equal prio on DST in week 1 of raiding with a guild and then get mad when the Rogue who has been farming it for 6 months gets given the item, while 23 other people in the raid are congratulating him while the one sweaty 1 week recruit is mad.

6 Likes
26

Complete nonsense. I raided up until aq40 in vanilla. I raided up until black temple/mh in tbc. I raided up until lich king heroic and did quite some tries on him before I quit raiding due to other people quitting and having to start progress over constantly as a result. I raided dragonsoul until the guild decided to make up some arbitrary rule on the spot despite running epgp.

Loot management was bad in all the guilds but 1 that I’ve been in.

2 Likes
27

Bad in your case means “not how I would have done it”.

Giving organised groups agency over where stuff goes is great. If you don’t like it, don’t partake.

4 Likes
28

No, it means funneling gear to old members, like the first guild on wotlk. Some priest that had raided with them since tbc got prio on gear for cloth. “To boost his performance”. It took them until ulduar trying to do firefighter to realize how bad he was when he could no longer spam coh like he did in tbc.

When raiding ICC people brought alts to the farm content and they got gear above trials. Alts got gear above trials.

In cataclysm, the first guild I raided with were a group of irl friends abd we didn’t really have any loot system but more of a “Do you want this?”. People eventually started dropping out because of people not showing up on time.

Second guild in cata is the only one that’s actually distributed loot properly but it disbanded in firelands due to roster problems, being horde on an alliance dominated pve server certainly didn’t help.

Third guild in cata ran epgp, tier chest dropped and I wanted it so I could get the last set bonus. Nope. Can’t have it because a druid healer should have it despite having full tier already. Arbitrary rule made up on the spot, epgp would mean I was the one who was going to get it. He started arguing with them how dumb it was and then gquit on the spot during the raid. So much for using epgp. They also denied a warrior a minor upgrade, because the slot he was using wasn’t from the raids with them(lol). We kind of killed the guild when we left, they never got back to where they were.

In vanilla & tbc it was dkp and that’s just lolworthy.

2 Likes
29

Meh, people using a good tool poorly doesn’t mean its a bad tool.

And bad guilds that do stupid stuff like you’re saying they did deserve to die a death. Buuuut, for good guilds where people are on the same page and trust each other its a great system.

30

That’s fair they’re people who’ve been with the guild a while and will stick around

31

An alt that’s only there for alt raids or gets brought to the main raid for farm bosses because their main has what they needed gets the gear instead. Yeah, wow, we had such big use for them.

32

Guild hopping also happens when guilds have extremely tight cliques which prevents newcomers or those outside of the clique from participating with guild stuff (or benefitting from it) in any meaningful way.

33

That’s great. They should never find new raid members with that strategy only new trials.

34

I am so glad ML is back, finally the ones who perform the worst but are still brought to the raid cannot luck out on gear they do not deserve

3 Likes
35

Why do you all care? Since when was any raiding loot essential? I was full geared running m+ before getting any meaningful loot from raid

36

it will likely be the same for WotLK classic.

1 Like
37

So it’s not that the team is necessarily ideologically opposed to this, it’s just that there is a lot of tech problems and the dissonance. I think it was Antorus whenever this happened, just caused problems?

Yeah, we had our tools, our code, every assumption we made in how we build loot tables from 2018 onwards has gone in one direction, and now we’d need to just turn back around. There’s a lot of questions to figure out also, we should also bear in mind that going back to group loot means you could have a bow drop with no Hunters in the raid, and sometimes that’s a thing that will happen and that feels bad, but that’s kind of ok - it has to be. The thing we can’t have happen is a world where loot is still smart and if you stack a group with like 6 Warriors, you’re only going to get Warrior loot and it’s completely tradeable with no restrictions? That just kind of breaks everything, so we need to just figure out a middle ground going forward, but
 that’s something we want to do.

Dear god, they finally make a good point and people still complain. Of course people are going to complain because now boosters with loot trading will have a hard time and won’t be just able to stack armor class.

1 Like
38

“Toxicity returns to wow”

It never left

3 Likes
39

Thats becouse most people are simply clueless. They will never have big enough insight into game desing to realize how things they ask for will have negattive impact on players behaviour. They never look at things from perspective of whats healthy for playerbase and the game. They just look at things from super narrow and their own personal experience where only thing what matters is their fun.

40

I think it’s a decent compromise but it definitely sounds like they are more interested in breaking the degenerate practices of crazy gearing the RWF and top guilds do, rather than anything for the benefit of the playersbase. Boosters too ofc, you make a good point.

Every time this debate comes up people just can’t comprehend what it’s like for a huge number of players who have had nothing but bad experiences or mostly bad experiences with ML. It’s a shame because clearly a system left to players is bound to have issues.

I will miss Personal Loot, it wasn’t perfect but it stopped leaving all your gearing in the hands of random bunch of playes who may or may not have a clue what they are doing, or worse are just going to favour their friends, fellow officers, favourites etc. Of course there were guild that did gearing well but there are many who did not. The naiive answer is always well just leave. And then eternally spend your time hopping from guild to guild to guild.

Serious guilds will probably be able to decide who they want to award the loot to and can dish it similar ML, this also happened with PL but will be easier with group loot. However, the quick option will be to just use it as intended, let people roll on the drops. I’m hoping this is something more casual guilds will go with.

41

Isn’t personal loot essentially automated /roll :man_shrugging:

1 Like