But I love being a shaman 
Why hate me? Was I a bad person?
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Yes Very bad!
You erhmmm.
Were op back in classic.
And your class leader retired.
Ummm also you make it hard to give Druids cool spells.
Okay I got nothing.
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I donât recall anyone torturing civilians during the Purge. As for killing and looting - just like in Camp Taurajo those actions werenât sanctioned by High Command. Unlike all the genocide and plundering the Horde do, which is all part of the plan.
Thatâs just the way it is. I donât like it personally - Blizzardâs fiction would be much more believable and easier to invest in if high command used the Allianceâs lack of resources or desire for force cohesion as an excuse not to punish such actions (which is what would happen in real life) - but regardless of my personal feelings, thatâs canon.
Eluneâs a goddess associated with healing, tranquility and harmony who has no real reputation for cruelty or malice.
Helya is a fallen Titan Watcher who is driven to malicious acts by bitterness over her fate.
Treating with one isnât the same as treating with the other. Itâs the difference between taking a loan from a loan shark, and praying for a loan from a distant and inscrutable goddess who dabbles only occasionally in mortal affairs.
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I recall beatings of unarmed citizens. And a bleeding civilian hanging by the neck over a shark in a pool.
And your literal words were:
They got away with what happened with those civilians. Was there any trial, punishment or repercussion for it?
Dealing with some shadow/undead entity. Same.
(Regarding the energies they meddle with).
And we lack information regarding exactly what meant for Tyrande to do that.
On Jainaâs orders?
Yeah. Exactly.
See, thereâs the difference. Orc leaders ordered their warriors to slaughter the Draenei and the Humans. The Warchief of the Horde ordered her soldiers to blight the lands and burn Teldrassil. No Alliance commander ordered anyone to dangle a shopkeeper over a shark tank by their wrists - and before you âyeah but Vereesaâ me, Vereesa isnât an Alliance commander, and as far as Iâm aware she ordered killings, not shark tankings. Nobody ordered the Alliance deserters to sack Camp Taurajo either - an attack was ordered on a legitimate target (go ask Baine), the ransacking wasnât part of that plan.
Like I said, the Alliance has never been allowed to do anything brutal or dark, much less get away with it.
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Are you saying that the Horde is exonerated from the moral judgement of any act its soldiers do, if we lack evidence regarding whether or not those acts were ordered by their commanders?
Edit: And I doubt this reasoning works in WoW. Garrosh was trialed for the actions people under him did. Even stuff like the whole Alexstraza business, when he wasnât even on Azeroth.
Saying âitâs high fantasyâ doesnât give people an exucse to write poor, unbelievable narratives. Garrosh was tried for the bombing of Theramore, but not for bombing the druid grove - which he wasnât responsible for.
The reasoning holds everywhere. Youâre morally responsible for things you order people to do. Unless you disagree with that?
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So, if the Horde commander doesnât directly order it, then the faction is not to blame for the punctual acts of their soldiers (the stuff they do on their own while carrying out the explicit orders)?
Of course. Hence why I said âThe Alliance never gets to do anything dark or brutalâ etc etc.
Your issue, as a person who seems to want to defend the Hordeâs moral integrity, is that we have items in lore that show Horde commanders directly ordering atrocities and Horde soldiers carrying them out. I know of not a single example of an Alliance commander ordering prisoners to be murdered or an occupied city to be blighted or burned.
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Garrosh was trialed for stuff people under him did. One of those charges was âForced pregnancyâ, a charge based exclusively on the stuff the Dragonmaw did with Alexstraza when Garrosh was but a child stranded on Draenor with the Red Pox.
He obviously didnât order that stuff. But was trialed for it because as a their general, he was guilty by association.
And thatâs canon ingame events that happen in the War Crimes novel.
If thatâs the case, and unless proven otherwise, are you saying the Horde (and Sylvanas) isnât responsible for over the top acts of cruelty carried out by Horde soldiers in letâs sayâŠBrennadam? Darkshore warfront? Sludge Fields?
Brennadam orders:
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Ashenbrand, thatâs true. The most horde members are sadistic monsters 
⊠which is fine, depending on the circumstances.
Then thatâs a crock and he shouldnât have been tried for it.
Depends on what happens when the Horde high command become aware of these incidents. Are the perpetrators punished? If they arenât then high command acquiesces after the fact, thus theyâre morally responsible for the behaviour and any repetitions of it.
Youâre culpable for what you order people to do. Youâre also culpable for what people do while carrying out your orders unless you punish them for it. Make sense?
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It makes sense.
And given the Alliance command didnât punish the ones under them, the ones that carried out said acts during the Purge, it means that they are also responsible for it? (Being said Alliance high command Jaina, Varian, or whoever).
But he was.
Which proves that under ingame premises, being guilty by association is a thing. Similar to how a Mafia is trialed.
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Fair enough - the Kirin Tor will have to cop for that one, I suppose. Although they did punish Jaina, but the Alliance didnât.
So, thatâs one single act of brutality for which an Alliance-aligned member of the Kirin Tor is morally responsible, and for which sheâs suffered no consequences. Itâs funny, but I still donât feel wrong when I say âThe Alliance has never been allowed to do anything brutal or dark, let alone get away with itâ.
Under in-game premises the entire Horde are responsible for Brennadam, Darnassus, and every other act of criminal spite the faction carries out. So they ARE the villains!
âGoodâ and âbadâ are abstract concepts made up by human culture. They do not exist as natural parts of the cosmos.
Therefore nothing is good and nothing is bad. Everything is relative and depends on the point of view .
No conclusion can ever be drawn about anything in life in regard to morality. It always varies.
Basically, nothing makes any sense.
I am going to copy and paste this post every time we start talking about morality because I just love you all guys so much I can hardly contain tears of joy.
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NO HOOF RUBBING FOR YOU!
I thought youâre a good oneâŠ
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Define âgoodâ, please 
Why no hoof rubs? Come on.
Grrr⊠
Shooting and sinking a ship full of neutral goblin civilians, killing a whole lot of them to hide the fact that they were trying to kidnap the neutral acting World Shaman on his way to the Maelstorm. That was the SI:7 that falls directly under the High King of the Alliance and King of Stormwind.
No punishment for that either.
Vereesa and Jaina both state to be working under Alliance membership. So it had less to do with the Kirin Tor and more to do with the Alliance faction.
And they didnât punish Jaina for any of that.
Not the Alliance whose troops she used for the coup, nor the Kirin Tor, which she left voluntarily.
Youâll have to expand on what you think qualifies as criminal during war times, or who exactly should consider the Horde as villainous, as I already said that I do find it logical if they are seen as such from an Alliance pov. Which doesnât automatically make them such on a general or objective level.
But the demonisation of The Horde faction is really beyond the point here. If you are willing to consider the Horde as criminals for stuff like Brennadam, then you canât go ahead and state that âThe Alliance never does stuff like thatâ. Because the same logic you used for Brennadam (to name an example) would apply with the Purge and the actions that took place there.
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Soooo⊠Are you angry?.. Does that make you âbadâ right now? 