Before anything, this is not a “Grrrr, me hate undead, me want them destroyed!!!” topic
So keep it civil
So, the Undead’s existance is… basically horrible. They are trapped in their own rotting bodies, the dark magic that dragged back their soul against their will is very imperfect, so the senses are dull
It is safe to say - and correct me if I’m wrong - the undead hate their own existence
They had Sylvanas’ personality Cult to cling in to and of course each other, because they were rejected by the living and had nowhere to go (except back to their grave, obviously)
Depression and self hate but with a strong sense of community - not faction pride or loayality, they always were loyal to each other and Sylvanas
Sylvanas is gone, and they formed a council to forge themselves a new parh and future… and the question is simple: why?
Before Shadowlands they were afraid, it was uncertain what waits them (or totally certain, Darkness and Oblivion said by their Queen and their mortal teaching and faith)
But now?
Everything is okay
I mean, there is a New Arbiter and he is very kind hearted one, firmly belives, everyone deserves a chance and proper afterlife, eternal rest and peace and joy and happines, a hugg and probably puppies or kittens, depending their preference
And Kalia and the leader were there to see his ascension and personally knew the guy, they know he is a decent, honest, soft hearted fellow who wants to help the Multiverse… wants every soul to reach its proper destination and find peace
Now… this obviously a “problem”
Why the Undead should continnue their horrible existence? Something that was forced on to them and hated every minute of it, when it is 100% they will be judged by this guy and would find their peace?
It is basically the variation of the “why Azeroth not converted in to a global Death Cult” question, but more focused on the Undead
Sooo… as an Undead roleplayer, what keeps you “continnue” to exist?
Not heard about the news Kalia and the other leaders (and basically anyone who visited oribos) brought back with them, it is “safe to die now”? You don’t have to be a tortured soul, dragged back from your grave after murdered by some monster and was stuffed back to your own rotting coprse, imperfectly, so your existance is horrible…?
The sense of community?
Friends among the “living”?
Unfinished business?
Whats the reason? Why are you still here? (asking not offensively, but out of RP curiosity)
From us as players, we’re all fully aware of this, but in terms of our characters? What method do our characters have to know this information? Sylvanas had her trial at the end of the expansion but the majority attending there were the main cast of Alliance leaders (and Baine too probably) and the denizens of the Shadowlands.
The people still on Azeroth don’t really have any way to get this information, and that’s probably for the best - Shadowlands’ afterlife lore renders many in-game belief systems moot/obsolete/wrong, and I personally find the idea of night elves returning to Elune or tauren living with their ancestors to be more appealing than being sent to one of four realms made by death’s 3D printer.
Because dying is scarier than being miserable, even if you get told that the afterlife is totally happy and great (which would ignore the existence of Revendreth, a realm of aeons of torment).
Would you ask the same question of a depressed christian?
Generally speaking, yes
But Kalia is in the equation
And she wants to help the Forsaken… and she knows the truth. Isn’t there any bigger help than helping them finally find peace?
Not to mention the whole cleaning up Lordareon is based on a Maldraxxian designed solution…
True
But the problem the faction and racial leaders and of course Kalia (let put aside the random nobody npcs apearing in Oribos) know the truth and while most of them not really in the helping mood when it comes to the Forsaken (more like the opposite, they would like to see them gone) both parties best interest to fill them in the truth to either help or get rid of them
Yes
Most of the faithfull is not that faithfull… but that is another topic
But the unlike the depressed christians who have nothing to back up their fate and belife of the afterlife, the Forsaken have a solid proof what awaits them now
Not just the canon Maw-walkers (not a singular one, numerous) but reliable sources…
Personally, I wouldn’t exactly be watering at the mouth at the idea of getting put in purgatory for untold ages, slamdunked into the Maw which manages to somehow be even worse, having to spend all eternity trying to prove myself to be given a pair of wings and put to work for the rest of time in Bastion, becoming a ghost rodent in ardenwaeld, or… well, there’s Maldraxxus. But then, that’s hardly a change from just being forsaken, isn’t it?
These are all the realms they might get told about if indeed anyone is holding lectures on the Shadowlands, and I gotta say, none of them sound worth jumping off a cliff to rush to them.
Wich is reserved for the very worst, just one step away from the Maw… You have to have some mayor sins or other flaws preventing you from serving in or going to one of the other realms,it is a chance to atone for your sins and hopefully be redeemed
But the New Arbiter seemed quite relucant when it came to that question stating everyone deserves a chance…
But yes, there is a scary realm, thats true…
This is actually an interesting one
The Forsaken are constantly tormented by the memories of the deeds they had to commit as the slaves of the Lich King, eating humans, murdering loved ones and so on
Very painfull memories… (and the urge to consume flesh, but I think that one was retconned?)
The very existance of this place shouéd be a mayor driving force
Forget and start anew… help others to cross over and find their eternal peace… not that bad If you ask me
Tastes differ… beats the rotting loathed zombie state, but I think it is down to personal preference
This is another interresting one, since Maldraxxus is the shield and sword of the Shadowlands
Okay scourge themed, no argument there, but for a Forsaken, well they have experience what is to be like to be an undead…
And the idea they eternally could protect others? They were victimized on several levels… they could help and defend others who are/were like them
But again, personal preferences and taste
Exactly this is what I’m curious about
As anudnead roleplayer, what makes your caracter “stay”
Totally acceptable, well, those realms are horrible in your eyes and you found eternal suffering as a corpse better than… that
I’m just curious what drives the unead rolapayers to “stay” after Shadowlands
Not at all, the Maw is for the very worst but other than that virtually anyone goes through Revendreth. One of my favorite sinstones simply reads “He meant well, but there were consequences.”
You don’t have to be that bad to end up in red purgatory.
And the others, yeah it comes down to personal preference I suppose, but idk, I couldn’t write a character actually justifying picking those over having a slightly -y life.
Don’t get me wrong, none of my characters would jump off the cliff, knowing this awaits them
Even as a Draenei, would sooner go down the dark spiral of the anchorites of Outland (the Eredar had the habit of binding souls anyway) or beg for their people to make them a Vigilant; even as a programed droid fueled by my own soul seems better…
(It would be another interesting topic, how Shadowlnds “lore” would effect various races as a whole… )
But the Undead are in this uncomfortable position from lore perspective
Was just curious
Well first i gotta ask. Why do you assume that the average commoner even in the forsaken is aware of what happend in the shadowlands let alone the inner workings off it? I doubt even miss Menethil would share it because i need you to imagine the panic that could cause if everyone knew that the afterlife would work this and this and this way, your family went to this for this reason. How many faiths and religions would that shatter? How many people would try to exploit the system? So far it only seems that only a select few are send at the request of those were there and nothing more. For all they knew their leaders just vanished, The Ebon blade is involved, Spooky rift up in icecrown and thats about it.
And there are several factors as to why someone would want to continue their existence as an undead in the Forsaken. One of the most common one is Pride, Pride for lordearon because to many of those Forsaken because the majority hail from there consider themselves to be the only true heirs of it. Why would you give up the Kingdom that you lost before? Those who try to ‘reclaim’ it don’t even know the suffering they had to endure so what makes them entitled to it? (Again this is mainly from a Forsaken point of view.)
Another point is that some Forsaken actualy don’t mind being undead, Maybe they are huffing copium but truth be told they enjoy being immortal, They enjoy living without physical pain, To stand defiant and stronger then anyone could be.
Another thing is well the Forsaken always have been a bit morally ambiguous, Some are just straight up sadists, Mean look at the cult of shadow and the royal apothacary society, I highly doubt that their will change their practices -that- drasticaly.
Of course there are other points, Spite and vengeance against the world that rejects them, A want to see them being accepted, To see that their legacy is not going to be snuffed out. Perhaps redemption to prove others wrong they are not monsters. Or a second shot at ‘life’ ironicaly enough. To understand why a forsaken wants to continue, Or even death knights you need to imagine yourself as one of them and ask the question, Do you really want to leave this world the way you just left it whilst you still have a chance to change that?
I guess for the same reason average commoners, literal nobodies showed up in oribos, chit chating everyone?
Woudl give an arm and a limb to know that actually
Not mine, plenty of them around , no sense to waste a good one
But as they say, the road to damnation is pawed with good intentions… and helping the Forsaken to find peace is a good reason?
Now this is what I was looking for!
Reasons!
Reasons and answers to satisfy my curiosity
Thank you
I keep reanimating them whenever they off themselves and they can’t stop me. Just try to leave this mortal coil, fools, you won’t stay down for long.
It’s been five years since Shadowlands started, come Dragonflight, and a whole bunch of people went to it, not just faction leaders.
The very idea that everyone who went all agreed voluntarily to not discuss the situation when asked about it for years is just farcical, as is the idea that there wouldn’t be mass demands for information.
In the Blood Knight quests from the latest patch they’re like “oh hey you should go to bastion to fix this thing up lmao” and you just pop over with Liadrin’s adopted daughter.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/An_Honest_Heart
In the Tirisfal 9.2.5 quests they’re just casually chatting about Maldraxxus with each other, despite a bunch of them not having been there.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Walk_of_Faith
The NPCs we see and the way they talk about it makes it pretty clear that the NPCs aren’t keeping the Shadowlands situation under wraps, at all. To say that they are keeping it a secret is unsupported headcanon.
Then i will just say that blizzard has no idea how to write people or societies because if i was in that setting, As a commoner believing in the light my whole life and that it would save and protect me even as i died, And then learn that everything i had believed in was a lie and doesn’t even have a factor on the other side? That would shatter a person. But then again this topic has been done over and over again so i should just leave it there…
Pure, unadulterated spite and fierce lordaeronian patriotism. Not one step back!
Also, to give a more nuanced perspective, the undead Forsaken nation has been in thrall since its inception, freed from the Scourge but immediately shunted into an obey or die cult of the Dark Lady, may Her reign last a thousand years ect.
Now all pretense has been shattered and they’re functionally free for the first time to forge their own fate without the looming shadow of oppression and being denied all hope of any life but service. Love or hate the new council, it’s time to move forward, find and assert what they truly are.
More than what has been mentioned, I think a fear of the unknown plays into it much more. You simply don’t know where you’ll end up. Two of the five major afterlife destinations are less than pleasant, and I think it’s safe to assume that the lesser realms have many more like it.
An undead would be abandoning all of their connections in undeath as well, both good and bad. Unsaid words, unpaid debts, etc.
-y life.
