Unpopular opion : the game is still great

PVP Arenas
62

“You’re both stupid, everyone knows it was Legion Season 25!”

Thats definitely the first time i’ve heard someone refer to Legion PvP in a positive way, the expansion as a whole content wise sure, but PvP…yikes

3 Likes
63

common sense & experience with older expansion.

It’s not like its something new that casuals enjoy that kind of gameplay, that was blizzards goal. (Even tho i know alot of casuals who still don’t)

So why even bother arguing ? The dedicated PvP player simply need a new game / pserver to play to enjoy the game. As for the casuals : just play some melee cleave and enjoy your glad xd ?

About OP : yes, it’s a valid opinion since it yours but why again did u make this thread ? I wouldn’t expect anything else than what it is right now :smiley:

Straight up wrong, most of the people talk about S8& S15 as the best PvP expansions for obvious reasons. Bfa is not even close to one of them. Just because 1 dude says Legion was great, doesnt mean “Hurr Durr - EvErYoNe TAlKs AboUt a dIfFerEnT ExpAnsIon” please lol …

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The game is good-great. The new raid is fun and appropriately difficult.

PvP is not.

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Wrong how? It was just a hypothetical example to illustrate that people have different opinions, like favorite ice-cream flavors. It’s a hypothetical person who says Legion Season 25 was awesome. That person doesn’t exist. I invented that person to illustrate my point. :roll_eyes:

You even seem to agree with that point yourself, saying that Season 8 and Season 15 are considered the best. You then say it’s for obvious reasons, but they’re not very obvious. One Season had Shadowmourne and the other Season had a new talent system. There are more differences than similarities between those two.

Regardless, I’ll re-illustrate my example so it’s less controversial:

Four guys have played TBC. They reflect on the Arena experience.
- Season 1 was just the best, said the Warrior.
- Nah, Season 2 was definitely more enjoyable, said the Rogue.
- Really? I definitely felt like Season 3 was perfectly designed, said the Warlock.
- I never really thought abut it. I guess I liked them all the same, said the Druid.

You get the point, hopefully. It’s very much a subjective matter driven by people’s own experiences.

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There are not. Gameplay wise both are pretty similar and unpruned.

What kind of example is that ? You have to see what the majority wants and you when 70% of the playerbase disappears after WoD i don’t think its even arguable when the game actually “felt” good to play for most of the community.

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WotLK was the time when classes were just classes and a spec was something you made yourself in the talent trees. And apart from a few abilities found in the talent trees, then all your class’ abilities could be found in your spellbook.

MoP was the time when classes became specs at level 20. And talents had become something themed around your chosen spec - choices of 3s. And most of your abilities were now spec-specific and given to you only when you played that particular spec.

In that big discussion of class design, Cata represents the last iteration of the old class design, and MoP represents the first iteration of the new class design - the one we have today.

Equating WotLK with MoP as far as gameplay and pruning goes strikes me as wrong. Those expansions are at opposite ends in terms of design.

:expressionless:
Forget the example then.
People like different things. That’s my point. I don’t know how to convey it in a more straight-forward manner.

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And yet sociology teaches us that there are common denominators shared between large masses of people that leads to similar, if not the same, kind of reactions, opinions and decisions. Just sayin’.

So you should not ignore that there are shared denominators which has led to similar responses in the player base. Don’t ignore feedback just because we all feel differently (even though we more often don’t, but that’s a discussion for another day and certainly not here on this forum). (I meant we as in us humans in the second half of this paragraph.)
The small things differs, but we are all not as different as you might think when it comes to the larger things.

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Sure. And I have said what I believe to be some of the ones that translate to Arena being in a good state.

Feel free to share which denominators you think there are. I know you said finesse before, and I don’t want to come off as too much of a jerk, but it’s a bit vague and somewhat intangible.

If you went into the WoW design office and said: “Put more finesse into Arena!” and then walked out again, I think they’d be pretty clueless as to what their job task would be.

If you went into the WoW design office and said: “Put more maps into Arena!” and then walked out again, I think they’d have a pretty solid idea about what their job task would be.

It’s the same with that whole “Unprune the game!” phrase that gets thrown around. It’s easy to agree on, because everyone can apply their own meaning to it. It’s so vague.

70

Thats not true at all. You have countless spells even in MOP which barely have to do anything with your spec. Take priest for instance

You have Shadowword death as holy/disc / Shadow
you also have renew across all specs

Do i need to continue ? Check how it is in Legion/BFA

These spells exclusively became available for their spec.

You make simple things sound complicated for no reason whatsoever.

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aaand I’ve already covered this by saying that all feedback is valuable. It’s not our responsibility to post negative feedback with thought out solutions on how to fix it nor is it our responsibility to pinpoint exactly what is wrong. That’s all highly voluntary. It’s up to them to come up with what they feel is appropriate in response to feedback they feel is applicable after having researched it themselves.
And like I’ve also said, it’s not about designing a game solely based on feedback. Nor is it about designing a game solely based on the developers’ whims. It’s about finding that middleground where both help each other, but this loop was broken down a long time ago and the middleground is but a fantasy now.

If I were to describe my impressions of where the state of the process is right now, then I’d say they’ve catered too much to nonsensical feedback. Which is what created what we have now.

72

Yes, you do.

Look up the amount of abilities a “spec” had in Cata and then compare that to the amount of abilities the same spec had in MoP.

The reason why Blizzard opted for spec-specific abilities and a new talent system that let you choose amongst some of them, was to reduce the overall amount of buttons that characters had on their keyboards.

That’s why spec-specific as opposed to class-wide is a thing. It reduces without removing by relocating. But for all intents and purposes, that’s what we today know as pruning.

73

My point is made and i gave you enough examples.

Druid having clone across all specs (got prunned in Legion) they reverted it for ferals in BFA i think ? Didn’t really track the progress.

Sadly I’ve only really played Priest in BFA but having 5 spells in your bar tells enough to me.

Stop comparing MoP class design with everything that came after, that’s just wrong and you might be out of touch with mop due to you not being able to play it since 2014.

74

Except for the lists people have created ever since it happened of things that were, in fact, removed. It’s just that some were replaced by new things, and since then they’ve also compounded more passives on top of each other as well as increased the strength of the passives themselves.

It was pruned in the WoD prune, from ferals. Soo, no. Or was it the MoP prepatch they removed it from ferals? Gosh darn it, now I can’t even remember which. Ferals definitely didn’t have clone in WoD though.

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Na ferals still had clone in mop :smiley:

It obviously got prunned after i just wasnt sure if it was legion or Warlords of downcraft. I just used it as an example

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Guess it was in the WoD prepatch then. Which was after s15.

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Yesssss

When the game went downhill :))

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I was mostly trying to draw the comparison between WotLK and MoP, since those were the expansions for Season 8 and Season 15. But they’re like water and oil as far as design similarities go.

In WotLK, if you were a Mage, you would have Frostbolt, Fire Ball, and Magic Missiles in your spellbook by default. Didn’t matter which talents you picked, you would always have access to those abilities.

In MoP they introduced specs and spec-specific abilities. So now you only had Frostbolt if your chosen spec was Frost. And you only had Fire Ball if your chosen spec was Fire. And you only had Magic Missiles if your chosen spec was Arcane.

So by tying the abilities to specific specs, a Mage went from having access to all 3 in WotLK to having access to only 1 in MoP.

Anyway, I don’t dispute the notion that Season 8 and 15 are highly-regarded Seasons by a lot of players. But I do dispute the notion that they were similar in terms of the design or gameplay that they originated from. They were not.

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No it isn’t.

Like I said, make an in-game poll about it. Blizzard has many data analytics and could probably develop or have some1 to develop them a simple alghoritm to go through the answers.

Waving your handa about subjective opinions isn’r credible. You don’t tackle a problem by ignoring it, you try and solve it. And to get the best info, you ask the players.

And no, the excuse that “it is hard” doesn’t fly here because a multi-million business like activision Blizzard definitely has the expertise to create such a poll/query, or they can hire some1 to do that for them.

80

Actually they earn a couple of billion every year. Just sayin’.

They are unlikely to do such a thing, but what Jito CAN do is create a survey on places like… what’s it called… surveymonkey? And stuff like that, and then just spread the link around to get more feedback. The only hard part is coming up with questions and possible answers that can be used reliably as reference.

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Which is why you do it professionally. You want your questions to be unbiased and not leading the answerer to pick 1 option over the others, and then you also need to be able to make clear conclusions from the data (such as having an alghoritm) go through free answers in the poll to pile up similar answers and categorize them to reduce human workload.

But it is kind of telling qhwn you straight out say that they are unlikely to do that- Blizzard’s communication with the players has been so terrible over the last few years that nobody even believes their promises anymore.