That’s why I said that delves are part of the PvE gearing system. They are there for people to get gear faster.
Because three paths of gearing are more and faster than two paths of gearing.
Also, one of those paths is incredibly easy and gives you Hero track loot in the vault, plus crests to upgrade items up to 668 and craft to 675.
Right now, in Season 2, delves are so generous to everyone.
Also, I don’t think someone doing HC raiding weekly and M+10 for the vault is doing it just for the achievements.
It’s more of a progression path for your character to see how powerful your character can become, and you can later test that in higher keys if you wish to go that route.
I think it reasonably could be farmable and a viable means to end-game gear. You’d have to change some things though.
Delves are currently much more rewarding that raids and m+ relative to their difficulty. You fix that by reducing the quality of the gear that drops. Make 11s drop champion track, 8s veteran track, and lower than that gets explorer or adventurer track.
Delves rewards you too frequently relative to raids and m+. Given that a delve is usually some in between 4-10 minutes, you’d need to make it a 10-15% drop chance for loot to prevent gearing up way too fast.
Delves are soloable, and thus only relies on you not making mistakes which makes them mich easier than their counterparts. Cap the rewards at champion track from delves and hero track in vault.
If we’re willing to keep to reward-difficulty ratio somewhat equal to m+ and raids then I can see it working.
Congratulations, you just made m0 to m4 reward only Vetran gear, m5 to m9 Champion and Hero dropping only from m10 and above.
Right. In line with that, you can only have 1 chance at loot from any raid boss regardless of difficulty. So if you killed boss A on normal, defeating on Heroic the same week will not make you eligible for loot, only Crests.
Also with M0 and M+, only the first 8 run per week can award you loot, after you aren’t eligible.
M0 and M2 (and quite frankly, any M+) imposes next to no penalty for failing the timer. As Delves don’t give reward if you fail the lives-left count, M+ now doesn’t give item drops if it is over-time.
Raid bosses will simply get a de-buff showing that they no longer drop items, after you have wiped on them 10 times. This can be a personal debuff, making the player un-eligible for loot.
There you go. I am happy with your changes, and you are happy with these too. Always lovely when we can improve player experience.
I really do not care delves give 1 hero track piece a week, which i can farm in +6 dungeons. Yes, delves are a very nice step up into the season with 639 loot (limited by coffer keys). But that was the end ilvl of previous season. The current season start there, up to 678.
I don’t know, but I am crying from happiness whenever I can turn a horrible argument around and leave it’s author in the dust.
In my opinion, I would change only 1 thing:
To use Bountiful Coffer Keys as a “bonus loot”, that can guarantee an item from M0 to M5.
Basically, if you don’t fancy delves, but still want to speed up gearing, you can still collect the keys, but use them at M0 boss or end of M+ (only up to Champion, which is +5) and get a guaranteed random item.
Awfully cute of you to believe that, but you don’t leave anybody in the dust.
I suggested those changes because a tier 11 is comparatively as easy as an m0, and delves don’t currently go further than that.
It’s fully reasonable to promote equal rewards for equal difficulty, it’s ridiculous to justify being rewarded champion track gear in a tier 8 delve, when it’s difficulty is comparable to that of a world quest.
Anyway, I’m not expecting you to be reasonable, go on and defend your free handouts if you wish.
You were talking about gear rewards. Those end at +8. +11 gives Gilded Crests, which should be equal of to M+7.
You are approaching this from the wrong way. It’s not the reward that is the problem. It’s the difficulty.
+11 as a damage dealer is quite rough. You can die and run out of lives easily. There’s also a big disparity between classes and specs. As a healer, it is a bit challenging, but the difficulty still should be increased. The biggest offenders are tanks. Tanks can speedrun +11 delves without healing Bran in 630 gear. That is the issue.
I do think that Delves need a lot of tuning to be in line with M+ and raiding, but not because of the (rather limited) reward. It’s the messy difficulty that should be addressed.
I would like to agree, but then what about M0? You must admit that it’s just as difficult as the Raid Boss WQ in Undermine.
I am not an unreasonable person, but I don’t think that 4 champion and 2 hero item per week ruins the gearing curve, especially because 70% of the time you get trinkets which are 25 item level below the ones from dungeons and even more than raids.
We’re not talking about a limited amount of items, the topic is about farmable delves, much like m+.
I was talking about a general world quest, like “Slay 15 boars”. I’d say m0 is definitely harder than the world boss, as that is just a target dummy. In m0 there’s at least mechanics you’d have to respect to some extent.
Debateable, but it’s harder than tanks for sure. They’d obviously have to tune delves better so healers and tanks can’t stomp through it with much more ease than DPS.
Why should 11s give rewards equal to m7 when 11s are much easier than 7s?
That is kinda the same thing. I’m saying that if we’re to make delves farmable at the difficulty level they currently are, the rewards ought to be nerfed unless you’re advocating an extremely imbalanced reward structure between end-game pillars. You could of course also just buff all delves a whole lot, and keep the rewards, it’s effectively the same thing.
The point is: delves are too rewarding relative to their difficulty, when compared to the other end-game pillars in the game.
