There are guides/builds that recommend to take Vanguard of Justice.
How can anybody recommend that crap?
U get 20% damage for 33% loss because every Holy Power Ability for Damage is 3 Holy Power.
It is always a negative, ALWAYS.
You can use Highlord’s Judgment instead to really gain 20% more damage, when using it wisely in rotation.
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Im not very good with the math on this nor in general but fairly sure that “get 20% dmg for 33% loss” is wrong in every way, or is it that you meant a 13% loss?
Now i get what you mean that 1 extra HP cost should result in a 33% dmg gain as thats what logical if 1 HP represents 33% of its dmg and might have been the case if every single generator ONLY gave 1 HP but we have several that gives 2-3 HP and one that can give 5.
As for Highlords Judgment, i guess its worth is reduced by current set bonus and Divine Resonance. Even then, why wouldnt you get both (other then playstile issues with the feel of 3hp spenders VS 4 as ive seen some argue)?
Why should it be dependent on the generation?
The 33% are only for HP spenders (which are 3 HP), but so does the talent only affect HP spenders, so the 20% which it grants on top also only affect spenders - resulting in a directly comparable situation, not for overall class/spec damage but for this all HP spending.
The 33% always holds true because every spender is 3 HP and when it is 4 HP it needs 1 more HP, which is 33% damage loss. The 33% (as seen as a 1:1 relationship with damage loss, see the following) are only reduced (resulting in not a 1:1 HP to damage relationship) when playing bad, e.g. not spending before being on virtual 6 HP and wasting a HP or not being able to have the same rate of HP generation like you would do without the talent. But the HP generation itself is untouched from the talent, so it only would be good if you generate 2much HP anyway. 4 HP talent is picked to not waste HP by having 2much HP because of 2much generation. But this can simply be denied by picking different generator talents, like adapting the blade of justice choices.
The goal is to get the most HP while always being able to be spending all of it, so it never caps. And this works like a charm without wasting HP with the talent, by adapting talents depending on your personal haste in the first rows. Cooldowns of generators shouldnt be unused because of 2much overall generation and therefore 2much spender usage, denying GCDs. If there would be a bad synergy, then as mentioned above, the overall class/spec damage could be influenced, even though it wouldnt reach the same magnitude as having an impact on the HP spenders. But this is only the case if skilled wrong.
In simple words:
Without the talent:
You spend 25% less HP for a 20% decrease in damage, while not capping any HP generation with the increasing use of GCDs for the spenders, because the generation now also needs less GCDs for more HP due to talent shift. Due to the fact that spenders do more damage than generators, this is a positive net outcome overall.
10000 damage will be 12000 for 4 cost,
while 10000 will stay 10000 but for 3 cost.
for 12 cost you do 36000 damage with the talent,
while without you do 40000, using one more GCD.
This GCD is compensated by shifting the generator talents.
Furthermore and I didnt even mention it, you have 1 more talent point to give any other stuff, because you dont waste it on the 4 HP talent.
Look, you can simplify the math all you want but there is a reason guides recommends it, its a dps increase.
Its the same with AACS (with BoL), i dont know how it does more dmg then TS + AA but a guess is that it generates HP better leaving room for more spenders in the long run and overall dps.
If i only meassure the dmg from AACS vs TS + AA then it might be worse but overall AACS is better for the whole of the rotation and its the same case with VoJ
I might be wrong in what i just said (i tend to be) but thats the gist of what ive gathered.
ye the guides are wrong thats why I write it. Same goes for affliction with haunted soul or mythic plus openers.
guides are created by players and sims are created by imperfect people
They are wrong according to what, your way of counting on your fingers? Sorry but if id take advice from a source it would be from the ones that take info from sims etc rather then a dude that presented his case with flat earth lvl math.
Is that why literally every single of the top 100 best performing Ret Paladins on Mythic Rashok (picked Rashok because pure single target fight, no add cleave) are running that talent?
I’m sorry, but I agree with Bodhi here. If everyone pushing the hardest content (and performing the best) are all telling me one thing, and you tell me a different thing, I know who I am going to believe.
You don’t have to run it, break the mold, don’t be a sheep, run your own builds.
But please do not pass it off as the result of superior intellect, when everything else proves the opposite
You’re just looking at one interaction and not considering all the other factors at play.
I don’t pretend to know what those factors are but you’re clearly missing something.
The best way to approach this would be to ask why its a better talent when on the face of it it seems to make no sense…
You also have to take Blesssing of Dawn and Empyrean Legacy into account. When this talent was 25% it freed up GCD AND increasing damage per holy power spent which wasn’t their intention for this talent. The intention is you deal roughly the same damage but free up some GCD.
In PvP this talent is nerfed down to 15% and not used.
25% everyone has to pick it, 15% none uses it. 20% seems about right.
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