i know everyone says they are bad in raids but they are all forgetting one very important fact, bringing a vengance DH means you dont have to bring a havoc giving you a bonus dps spot. this is HUGE for any raid groups and more than makes up for vengance not being a good raid tank imo.
or blizzard can make havoc do damage but we know that wont happen so vengance will be good tank.
How did you know that? I agree havoc is not performing well right know , but I doubt Blizzard will leave it that way. We are less than 2 weeks into the expansion, things will change , mark my words. Stop with this negativity!