Venthyr vs. Kyrian

Classes Paladin
1

I am Kyrian, and plan to stay that way. I haven’t played for like 3 months, now trying to see whether to play this or resto shaman. I mained resto shaman for ages, and for me I guess I’m looking for “trying something else”. Maybe I hereby answered my question you’d say, but I’m still doubting, my shaman “love” is quite big :wink: .

That being said, I tried some dungeons yesterday, and really really like this gameplay. Take into account, I am most probably not playing the way most play it. I quite like beacon of virtue playstyle, and maybe that means I won’t do super high keys, but since I mostly pug, I haven’t healed that type of keys anyways.

I use the Kyrian ability for healing, not sure if for M+ people use it for dmg instead ? For me, Beacon of Virtue + Kyrian ability = group wide lay of hands. Maybe I’m old school, but I like to heal as a healer. I don’t mind doing some dmg, but the reason I like healing, is I like to keep a group alive.

I started playing right before 9.1, this character that is, and didn’t get a lego yet, since I was sure I would get the Kyrian legendary.

Are there many Kyrian paladins here? Or Venthyr? What’s the ups and downs?

The way I understood it from friends I spoke to back then (before 9.1) is : Venthyr = when you play with a fixed group, Kyrian = when you mostly pug. Now I do play with some mates in Calm Keys, but I also pug a lot. So I’m doubting. I do like to have a huge healing CD, which Kyrian + Beacon is.

2

Your friends are correct. Venthyr Holy Paladin does amazing damage, if and only if you’re in a coordinated group. Even then, playing it is absolutely awful, see Ellesmere’s description of how it is in keys:

(Ellesmere is one of the top healers in keys.)

Stay Kyrian. :slight_smile:

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3

Thnx for confirming this, when I read about Venthyr (and besides gameplay, there’s also something holding me back putting a HOLY paladin in a covenant like Venthyr) I was worried that I would struggle hard actually healing people. Kyrian it is :wink: thnx for your feedback.

4

Overall dmg is around 5-6k as kyrian but you will miss out on priority damage at bosses and huge healing in big pulls

5

imo venthyr only benefits from large pulls that are co-ordinated around your CD’s.

For less predictable pug world kyrian is by far better since you have an emergency button on a one min CD.

6

I’d say - Venthyr is the way to go for M+ because it is an insane damage and defensive CD -
you can both top healing and damage when you use it no doubt. Kyrian is good for consistent healing output and the main reason why you see Kyrian Paladins in M+ is just that it’s bis covenant for PvP so people who mainly play PvP but do M+ from time to time play it.

Basically Venthyr is insane in certain scenarios when people are stacked and you can get value from it while adding a lot of damage. Kyrian is safe option that is worse than Venthyr in certain cases but it’s stabile and always good. Buffs to Necro H Paladin are also interesting.

7

Appreciate the reply, I’m staying Kyrian though. In the back of my head, I also don’t feel a holy character should be in some covenant like Venthyr :wink: Just my opinion of course.

Secondly, I am having a blast with Kyrian. I’m sure I won’t do keys higher than 20 anyways, since I don’t have a fixed team (yet) and the communities I’m in usually do around 20 max. Which in fact is fine with me.

I noticed whilst checking some guides yesterday, I still miss some conduits, I forgot I started levelling this right before my 3 month break, so got some work to do. I do have my covenant legendary.

A mate told me it was a bit buggy, the Kyrian one, or so he believed it was. Is or was this the case ?

Few questions I still have as well, Rule of Law, how you use that? Is that something you pop when for whatever reason you need to be further away from your healing targets ?

Lastly, Light’s Hammer over Bestow Faith, atm I use the 2nd option, especially for the Holy Power, or is Light’s Hammer a better choice ?

8

If you are kyrian you use the shock barrier (holy shock) legendary and the crusaders might talent for more holy shocks. In M+ you also never use rule of law. You use the unbreakable-talent for more defensives. In M+ your gear should have ‘no mastery’ but versatitlty instead, so rule of law has ‘no value’. In raid you actually want a lot of mastery.

The builds for venthyr and kyrian are completely different.
Your best guide is probably https://wingsisup.com/ by Ellesmere.
Have fun!

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9

Tsja :wink: and cheers buddy!

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10

Honestly everyone should play Kyrian for holy unless they are capable of doing 25+ key levels. Mikanikos has made Kyrian even more powerful.

11

I think it is more depended on the coordination of your group. The less you have to heal the more you can build for damage. That is not really depended on +15’s or +25’s (allthough the healing requirement gets higher the higher you get, so kyrian gets more value the higher you get too).

In a coordinated group you get value from Venthyr. I main kyrian but in my set group i never made it to time +20 mists yet. But i also have a venthyr (with a bit less gear). On our last mists run i took my venthyr so we were able to 1 phase the first boss and time the key.

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12

Not in pugs. In pugs, Venthyr is just frustration and pain, and half the damage it could be.

In coordinated groups, it’s still frustration and pain, but at least you can do big dam.

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13

Meh, divine toll on 40 sec cd is much better that some 4 min burst cooldown. If you lack damage in lower keys like that then your dps players are kinda garbage.

14

I have a Kyrian and a Venthyr pally, both with shock barrier lego. I play M+ with my guild master who plays a Guardian druid and we pug the other 3 dps. I find Kyrian way less stressful than Venthyr. Stay Kyrian ! And study Ellesmere paladin’s guide as mentioned above ,there is some good info there. :slight_smile:

15

First time i heared people doing +20 keys are garbage. And that +20 is a lower key.

16

Sucks to be you then.

17

Nah, i am quite happy :grin: Good to be me!

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18

Kyrian is still higher overall dmg in keys. You just have lower prio damage

19

So I see Mikanikos’s last conduit in his soulbind, so that would be the one to choose? And is that where I pick Glimmer?

I also decided to go for Shock Barrier. The one thing I’m still a bit puzzled about is the fact of me doing dmg, since when I join a pug, I have very little time to do dmg, so much dmg intake, I mostly focus on healing, which for me is fine, but how does that work, or it’s just because these groups suck?

Been playing around with talents, Light’s Hammer I also like to use, it just doesn’t give any HP, that’s why I liked using Bestow Faith.

I’m a fan of beacon of virtue, building but yeah, I am aware that really high keys require a healer to do dmg, I take that into consideration, but I am maybe a bit old skool, but I chose healing because I love to heal and I’d probably not reach higher than a 20 anyways, since I mostly pug ;).

20

Especially in pugs there is nothing wrong with playing BoV. There is on wingssiup a whole section of different builds depending on the crowd you are playing with. One of those is about playing BoV since pugs with less coordination take way more damage. If it currently works for you, play BoV.

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