I think destro is better. I always pull infernal, memory and top up the dps. Especially 2.5 min infernal is a great boost.
logs Put Demo and Elemental Shamans Equal in DPS. and only slightly behind Fire. Which requires a Perfectly co-ordinated group to really get the most out of.
I dont think its DPS wise, as Mentioned above, Lock has not Real interupt. and also community perception against warlock is Huge. Alot of people just assume Warlocks are in a bad place. because of how Much they Flux between being in good and bad positions.
i’ve invited warlocks to several keys, they’ve never been terrible DPS and Just fine, its just a case of most players automatically assume warlocks are in a terrible place and Immediately decline them .
also, their top performing specc Demo as far as i know, Movement Really fecks em over… which is obviously another thing that isnt very helpful to getting the class through the M+ Gates.
i think Warlock is really in need of Some change up concerning to adding some Utility and things to the class.
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They are great in mythic raiding though. Better than mage, balance, hunter,rogue.
No one disagrees with their need during raiding.
But to have a class only useable by raiders because they aren’t accepted in any other content isn’t exactly a ideal position.
Remember a lot of people use M+ as a end game and don’t go into raiding.
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warlock only purpose mythic plus is cookie dispenser
I have a problem with guilds because you probably have more freedom in North Korea than in said guilds.
In years I just can’t connect with any guilds because everyone is such a dramatic cry baby and I end up getting kicked.´
I PUG because guilds are elitist and fake.
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Warlocks can do quite abit of dps 
and I could go on to realistically saying it’s not the balance that makes warlocks undesirable.
The problem everyone just presumes warlocks are doing bad is generally what drives this.
Many players forget, players aren’t always right. And sadly buffs do not fix a community perception of a class
If you look at logs and more you always see atleast one of the warlock speccs above mid pack and with destro we do have a interupt. It is on a 30 sec CD but it isn’t a dps loss.
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The problem is not everyone just presumes Warlocks are doing bad.
The problem is; some other class will do alot way better than us Warlocks.
Let’s ask ourselves this questions; Why should a key owner take Warlock in instead of Demon Hunter? Any Warlock that aims high M+ will play Demo. And for Demo to do good DPS in M+, it needs a good flow, summoning Imps very quickly then using Implosion.
It requires high Haste + Versatility. It requires us to use Inner Demons + Soul Strike + Demonic Calling + Bilescourge Bombers as talents. But all of this will reduce our ST damage SIGNIFICANTLY. And here’s the kicker; even with all of this, a Demon Hunter will wipe the floor with us in AoE. And obiviously in single target as well… I have a 456 ilvl Warlock right now, which does LESS DPS IN AOE, THE MY 440 Frost Mage!!! That is just ridicilious.
Now, let’s ask the question again, why in the hell would a key owner take us instead of a Demon Hunter? Don’t say cookies; hp pots are cheap and they heal similar to Healthstone in terms of value.
Seeing as how we are not really getting a major change of talents/playstyle for Locks in Shadowlands… I think I am finally going to take a break from my decade long Warlock career.
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Destruction in high keys is almost the same dps.
And yes that’s a good argument, but it’s also a argument you can make to most classes.
Rogues, demon hunters and a few others are stronger options to most classes not just warlock,
That’s the problem with a meta, but it can’t really be helped
Tbh we don’t know any changes for any classes yet for shadowlands. We are getting some utility with curses coming back, and we don’t know how good they will be yet.
Problem not only goes with the fact that warlocks are not in meta, and grey masses are not willing to give a warlock a try. Problem is that warlocks doesn’t bring much on the table for specieficly M+. Healthstones and gateways are useful, not enough to justify warlock’s immobility and slow ramp up time. And some M+ affixes and mechanics just highlight the problem with warlock toolkit. M+ are full of silence/interrupts/high mobility encounters/mechanics where warlocks are really clunky. And problem goes even further, some classes are able to avoid some aoe zones and other nasty stuff with ease, while warlock need to put some talents to compensate this - burning rush/demonic portal. Some classes have good burst by default, but demonology need to spec into Demonic consumption/baleful invocation or Explosive potential.
Even if we step away from M+ topic, let’s just have a look at PvP. When you see how good rogue/mage/DH/DK/Monk kills his her target, you not only see the result of his/her actions during combat, you could see how exiting this looks like. But in case of warlocks, it still looks the same…we stand, we cast, we fakecast, we burst, we win or we die…end of the story.
Lots of disadvantages on warlock for m+, especially affliction.
Class balancing will never be the best, when warlocks are top performing they also nullify the reasons to bring some other classes. It’s called a meta and it can’t realistically be helped.
But there’s a difference between saying.
Warlocks can not perform in a +20
And
Warlocks are not preferable in a +20.
Which is a perception issue, meta is a perception. Not a requirement.
We play a overpopulated role, groups can afford to be picky, they don’t need to be picky but they want to be.
We don’t need a top1% class combination to do content. You just need a reasonable set up that makes sense with a group of players who can play their classes.
I’m not arguing warlock is stronger then meta choices, I’m saying the meta isn’t avoidable and if we were meta this same problem would exist for another class. It’s endless.
Destro warlocks do bring a interupt + a AoE Stun which can also be used to stop casts on trash, it’s can perform fine dps wise.
And if I make my own groups they go fine :p.
We will never be at a point every class in the game is equal to another.
Melee dps are currently the preferred choice. And fire mages bring BL. So Ofcourse we aren’t flavorable atm.
Just play dh or rogue, bfa is nearing it’s end.
Melee was way too strong this expansion, and it might just happen that warlock will receive some much needed tuning to increase it’s dps, aoe and overall group utility and usefulness so they will be very much desired in SL for both raids and m+.
And let’s be honest being only desired for raids is rather trash, you’re wanted what, between 1 to 3 days per week?
When I was on my warlock during EP I was in 90+ percentile both on normal and heroic (full clears) also did mythic up to ashvane but kinda quit wow afterwards, but not being able to pug m+ due to my class was quite a disaster, also gameplay is just dull. You can’t move a single nanometer or you lose potential dps. With melee I can jump accross the room and still pull kek dps.
Warlocks are op everywhere so psssht
And you don’t see a problem with that? Warlocks is not in “Meta” for one obvious reason - our overall class design in not on par with rest of the classes.
See for yourself, Demo good raw damage, questionable CC, zero mobility, zero interupts, questionable utility for the group.
Destro good raw damage, questionable CC, zero mobility, one interupt on 24sec CD, questionable utility for the group.
Affli questionable raw damage, questionable CC, zero mobility, one interupt on 24sec CD, questionable utility for the group.
We are not in meta because we have outdated game design ideas in our very core class design.
Warlocks are not good because we play outside of natural flow of the game, and i mean it in the bad way. While game became faster and faster, we remain immobile, and since legion we became less mobile then ever. Our CC was pruned more then any other pure DPS class in the game, our self sustain became boring low-skill soul-leech based shields with nerfed DL and HS(since we has lost Glyph on HS in legion). Whole our class desing is not just a sign of stagnation, it is a pure degradation of a previosly good mechanics and ideas.
Just look at some changes over the years.
Demo: Doom was made as a talent, it deals low damage and restores 1 SH and has a chance to summon a doomguard if doom happens to kill the target.
What is wrong with just this one spell.
- Low damage - even with Pleasure trough pain talent, and good gear it still deals 25k damage after 30 seconds. Damage is so laughable that people don’t care about doom at all in pvp. In PvE in M+ Trash dies so quickly that doom just doesn’t have a chance to deal damage.
- It has zero dispell protection - if it was doom in previous itterations then zero dispell rotection would have been ok, but now when this is a TALENT is’t just wrong, talents should be impactfull not laughable.
- Doomguard part of the spell is broken, no one saw Doomguard since 8.1, and when i saw him once in BGS prior 8.1 he died with two atacks of monk…
And same level of threatment goes to the rest of the class. Warlocks right now are full packed with unreliable and straght foward bad gameplay mechanics. The fact that our RAW damage is ok or good says only one thing, that blizzard has failed to properly desing class, and damage is the only highlight that class have because of that.
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Affliction is pretty mobile, so is demo, even more so with a 3x EP build. Saying they have “zero” mobility is ridiculous.
Affli - maybe. Demo - do you realise that for your “MOBILITY” you need to farm 3x peaces of azerite armor with speciefic trait just to be viable or mobile in M+. No other class needs a speciefic peace of azerite to fix some of undeveloped of their class toolkit? Does anyone saw that mages need 3x pieces of azerite gear to be mobile or have better deffences? Rogues? DH? DK?
If you sits with current demonology toolkit and think that it is fine, then it is good for you, but i strongly feel that demo deserve a better gameplay desing, especialy when in preLegion xpacs we didn’t had any problems with that.
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