I started leveling a paladin.
Do i need to tell you this class is just as rotation mistake forgiving as warrior? If not even more.
No jokes i am pressing 3 buttons outside cds and it barely makes a difference in which order.
On top i have rezz, immunity, off heals, cleanse and a shtt ton of other utility which is extremely useful in every content. Compare it to my warrior spell reflect is giga wooooooooooo (im kidding someone interrupted it nvm)
Dmg? Im pretty much gapping my 631 ilvl warr in veteran and blue gear lol. Its much more consistent from pack to pack, burstier and has more range.
Why does one class gets to have all this when an other has nothing?
5%ap? Thats pathetic. Serves like 5 classes.
10% hp on 3min cd? Thats butterfly fart.
Storm bolt? Well on thane its not the worst st stun atleast. Shockwave? Without the plus node its dog water.
Our “rework” was literally 4 node changes or what.
Paladin has a complete overhaul in every season.
Some classes are so meta you will have 3x harder time without them. Invites? Who invites a warrior with same score as shaman dk paladin evoker druid?
How can this be normal that we contribute nothing to a group anymore( one thing we were good at is burst and now its gone) while some classes HAVE EVERYTHING!!! EVERYTHING!!!
Exactly , and we need to be very close to keep hitting , if you use colossus aoe and dont wait all mobs are staked togheder cuz u dindt see the tank pulling all the floor , you are doomed cuz other classes will keep hitting hard xD
Warriors need less fail windows mechanics
I prefer colossus smash reworked to colossus power , you hit 30% more physical damage to all targets for 12 sec
But if you like the way it is your problem xD
Dont forget colossus smash in single target mode ,
boss can parry it… what dps spec can have such a problem in their dps rotation ? Losing 30% more damage 
So i just recently touched a bit Prot Paladin, because i just enjoy helping and healing teammates, while being tank.
My first thoughs were that it’s harder with Prot Pal to pull more mobs in world and groups in dungeons.
This is where the value of Heroic Throw on Warr comes in. It’s just now when i tried Paladin, i see how valuable this ability is. And how addicted i am to it.
The first dungeon i went with my fresh lvl80 Prot Paladin, was TW dungeon, and jesus christ the amount of damage i recieved was insane.
I asked healer if this is normal, if he has to heal this much every Paladin or am i just that bad? Been told by group it’s the edited by moderator scaling in TW dungeons.
Maybe it’s just me being still very inexperienced with Paladin. But it feels overall slower than my Warr.
And tanking feels much more smoother and more in control with my Warr.
But really that may just comes from my lack of skills with Paladin (perhaps).
Jesus christ i cannot express how accurate this is what you just said. Spell Reflection is such an amazing spell and so incredibly powerful. Many times i bounced back spells that hit like truck or caused some DoT. I love that ability so much.
But as you said, it doesn’t matter in groups, because even if you time ur SR perfectly, someone very often just interrupt the enemy cast and you waste ur SR cd…
Spell Reflect does need rework. Maybe making it passive? I don’t know. Maybe giving it like 2 charges? And if it does not reflect any spell, reset the cooldown? I don’t know. That’s up to designers and balance team. But i agree it does need a rework.
I agree that the fact that not all classes uses AP kinda makes this group buff weaker. Compared to Priest 5% stam buff for example.
I love RC, because it gives me the ability to heal my teammates, which again, is something i love to do. It’s partly the reason why i love Draenei, god knows how many times already i have saved my teammate thanks to Gift of the Naaru.
But i agree 10% hp on 3m cd is… Just ridiculous…
I don’t even use Storm Bolt xd. Big fan of Shockwave tho.
It’s literally the reason why i gave a Paladin try… I want my Warr so badly to be able to “help” my teammates, my group, my raid, my dudes in world pvp or battlegrounds…
Prot and Fury play really well, Arms could use a bit of a cleanup. DPS Warrior is lacking in dungeons, but damage limitations on AOE compared to other classes is probably the major contributor, which is funny given that’s exactly where Warrior excells in the raid.
Warrior doesn’t need a rework, maybe Arms does, but Blizzard could try to figure out how to have the spec be desirable in dungeons and raids, not one or the other. But Warrior isn’t even bad in dungeons overall anyway, it’s just the few top specs being ridiculously out of line and that’s causing the issue.
Not sure it needs a rework, rotations are fine or at least ok in my opinion. More utility is REALLY needed in M+ though.
If it were up to me I would love to have disrupting shout moved to the class tree, and also mass spell reflect. Maybe having both would be too op idk, but only those 2 and I would be a happy warrior.
Then there is the RC cd. I know it would be way too op and abused at high level, but imagine if RC was giving your whole group (set condition to : while in party only) a 1 second cheat death window. That would be so cool and allow for such a high skill ceiling. I know it’s never happening but hey one can dream.
Major contributor in M+ is that Fury’s niche of AoE burst, “need” to be balanced towards raid and not outshine everyone else within that spot. Because that is apparently a problem.
As such, Fury must be panned flat profile wise and have its damage moved from predicatable on button press damage. Towards more RNG and heavy proc based gameplay that spreads damage around.
The press-button and do the damage; is dead. We started with it, it is basically watered out to being pointless.
Remember when we pressed buttons and we actually always did the damage? I do. It felt awesome, as it was my choice to when to pop off. Odyn’s did damage without being based around the double-up from Titans Torment and Bladestorm pumped damage. Combine with roar and we did great damage even in M+. Not top tier overall, but we were really strong at what we did, so we could take that weaker part on the chin. We could carry our weight without being reliant on the AP% shout to carry the difference and making us “worth”.
My point here is, yes - there was still RNG, you still could be lucky - but even then it was only a minor bonus to your damage: It wasn’t THE damage.
Now if I don’t get lucky with reap procs, my AoE burst bleedover damage beyond 4 sec is dogwater tier. THIS IS GETTING CLOSE TO DRAGONFLIGHT ALL OVER AGAIN! Damage is no longer something we chose to do, it is given by lady-luck. Slayer Fury is partly ruined, fun factor took a huge hit.
If they don’t allow us to actually play based on that niche, press button do damage, then the whole spec should be reworked to accommodate that fact. Not these half measures that causes us to be great at absolutely nothing. Why give us buttons that kinda does a thing, but only if you are lucky with the RNG elements?
As such, warrior do need a rework, especially Fury. If we can’t have a moment of glory built in, then the talents and spec should reflect that. Not look like it builds towards it.
I am not expecting any major changes to warrior come update .07 and .1. This being the case, I’ll just not play m+ on my warrior, which is my main, anymore.
What needs to happen is either dungeons being nerfed when it comes to utility requirement, other classes being nerfed when it comes to survivability and damage, or warrior being buffed to be on roughly the same level of good specs.
Even if less utility were strictly required for M+, people would still prefer classes with utility, just to have an easier time.
Damage is the most important thing a dps can bring. Problem is, currently, we have melee specs that bring the most damage while also having either over the top survivability (frost DK) or over the top utility (enhancement shaman). It would be foolish, close to trolling, from the standpoint of any group leader to invite a dps warrior when playing +12 keys and up, hence why dps warrior is usually nothing more but a pity pick if literally nothing else is around.
The collosus smash its the problem aka warbreaker it such a bad design you can miss it or be denyed so easly ,other classes they have such fluency in uses their burst our collosus smash can be just a blink from mage and those 10seconds of burst are done,why colossus smash its not a buff effect make no sense sometime i feel like devs have something against this warrior class its just so easy to fix collosus smash
If you play other classes you would find how simple and smooth the rotation is,
For me SS thunderous rour, avatar and Coloussus smash are just too many cds and honestly they all can turn into passives.
Colossus smash should get an option 6% from auto attacks and mortal strike to apply colossus smash effect on target just like that shadowland legendary.
Sweeping strikes should be passive at this point and should also be 3+ targets and effect auto attacks too.
Avatars is not as strong as 30 sec cd paladin wing and it’s way weaker than 1.5min cd like Abomination unholy dk or Arcane’s 1.5min cd that also can be reduced, so what is Avatar? Just root breaker in Ara Kara? Just make Avatar Tank spec cd only and be done with it.
I loved bfa Arms warrior its just 45-30 cd class you don’t have cds you don’t have random stuff to line up every other pack you just a guy with a sword no fancy omega cd 1 shot spec. In bfa sometimes you play with blood of the enemy or that 2 min nick ability that make you have infinite rage.
I don’t mind bleed spec as long as i have multiple bleeds i have or passive execute when bleeds are on target that below 35% it bleeds faster and increase critical hit bleeds, by this you passively make execute a mortal strike passive it solves every contant you play other than boss fights because execute essentially useless button to press outside boss fights.
For colossus hero talent, demolish should be passive that replace shield slam or mortal strike when you spend rage and it apply colossus smash effect on the targets you hit.
Also i want to point if they ever making arms bleed spec again they should look at the left side of the tree sks should be passive just like protection warrior df season 3 set, they should take out fatality and replace it with mortal compo. On right side the execute sid they should add talents that focus on increase critical hit, haste tick speed on targets below 35% this would be great in m+ and aoe and replace that 2x execute legendary from legion and shadowlands to something like rouge sudden demise cap stone but for warrior its based on mastery because mastery is arms warrior bleeds.
This is going to sound harsh but maybe pay attenuation to what’s going on and hold off a global or 2 before you unleash CDs
What is needed in M+ is a scoring system outside of timing a key to give an accurate representation of skill.
A score that reflects interrupts, hard CCs, advantageous use of defensives and avoidable dmg avoided would better serve the community and force people to get better.
I haven’t pushed , I’m tanking 10s at ~2640 and I’m routinely (helping) carrying 2700-2900 DPS, 3k Rio seems to be the threshold where the player always turns in a shift
I’ve tanked some reasonably high groups and the discordance in how much the poor healer is having to pump out is also reflective of how much DPS are getting carried on their RIO.
Separate to the above, I’d love warriors to be seen as the CC class - that said we already have that atm because there is a metric tonne of lazy DPS doing the rounds
I like this message.
Timing is one of the reasons why i don’t like m+.
Because i’m forced to deal as much damage as possible, which is what i don’t like.
I like to tank, i like to look around during encounter, i like to watch cds, i like to watch spawning trash, i like to watch whether people are safe.
That’s mostly why i play tank.
Dealing damage is not fun to me. Especially as something, that i’ve been playing since TBC and the rotation is pretty much same for many years.