Warrior Tank - Blizz you win

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
21

whistles
hey buzzboy por favor, i need a bit of splotch on the ground taunted over here.
hey.
hey buzzboy snaps fingers
there’s some :poop: on the ground here, can you taunt for a sec?
hey.
can you say “si me ride my tiny bicicleta to school” please.

jokes aside. im sorry for your loss (of threat generation).
see?
sympathy and compassion does in fact exist.
as someone who walked in your shoes for 20 years in all versions of classic (as enh shaman) i can comfortably say i know what its like to be a gimp underperforming class/spec and screaming at the clouds while nothing is being done to fix the problem by the devs.

my initial point was that you warrior andies got a lot to learn about the concept of sympathy, and thus seeing you get your comeuppance kinda feels good after said 20 years of dealing with phrases like “put on the dress and heal mr wf totem”.

maybe you guys can learn to be humble in time for Classic+ so you won’t have to suffer like you do in SOD.

lots of egos being thrashed these days, because it turns out you were in fact being carried by your class in vanilla/era wow, which is evident based on your inability to perform on the same level in SOD.

Btw you can always tell your shamans to totemtwist WF and Tranquil Air totems to help alleviate your threat issues btw, i did that back in vanilla 2019 and people loved me for it despite the fact i was a “meme enhance shaman” (with some of the best logs in the world which still didn’t reach the sockholders of a DW tank in raw dps btw).
guess you are screwed if you play alliance tho, since BoS no longer cuts the cheese on its own and you don’t have alpha.
/shrug.

enhancement shamans in your tank group should likewise twist WF and Agi totem to help your tanks pump more threat if you got threat issues.

if the shaman in all the dps groups twist WF / Tranquil and the shaman in the tank group twists WF / Agi, it should give your tanks a significant threat boost since the whole raid has its threat lowered while still getting WF and the tank group still gets more threat by token of getting more crit/dodge/armor (and in circumstances such as rogue tank also +AP) along with WF + lower raid threat.

but then again, SOD doesn’t really allow a lot of room to “waste” gcd’s on totemtwisting, which is honestly blizzard’s fault for not recognizing that totem GCDs are out of wack.
which is also why you don’t see many people do it.

22

Why do you feel like everyone that plays warrior is a “warrior andie”?

Do you really think everyone that plays the class was playing back in the day?

This is such a weird argument you are bringing up here.

I started playing warrior in SoD for example so are we not allowed to complain because some people were mean to you back in the day?

23

Because they play warrior and because they usually complain that warrior is not overpowered like they are in vanilla.

Yes.

Same argument brought up when i complained about my enhancement shaman underperforming a few years ago.
Sucks to deal with, doesn’t it?..

Correct.
Its called collateral damage.
If you must suffer so the majority can learn their lesson, then so be it.
Reroll.

24

Sure I guess. If that what makes you happy lol.

25

makes me overjoyed because it proves the point people have been making to warrior andies for 20 years only to be hit with the “put on the dress and put wf totem”-style “argument” every time their grievances were voiced on any and all forum platforms, including reddit, blizzard forums, wowhead, and pretty much any other platform you can think of.

26

Well, let me just say how much all your comments are actually inappropriate.

Vanilla: Main Paladin Healer
Era: Main Warlock
SoM: Main Druid Healer
SoD: started as a Priest healer, found some nice people to raid with, but we had too many healers, especially priests. DPS priests weren’t good, but we were missing tanks.
So I rerolled a warrior as a tank since phase 1.

Now, when my class has overperformed (e.g., Warrior Sunder DPS in phase 2), there were also runes (flagellation), where we directly posted on the forum saying they were bad for the game, as we could see they wouldn’t hold up in relation to endgame and that they weren’t even fun to play with. But no one patted us on the back for actually fighting for a balanced game. It seems like it’s only when other classes start wanting to be balanced/buffed that you call for what you need to follow your arguments. That doesn’t change the fact that I feel my class underperforms. Yes, I get it to work, yes, I get Naxx+4 needs and have done it for some time now, but just because you can, doesn’t mean it’s fun if you have to do so much more work for it.

My biggest example is that I can barely with a 95%+ parses do the same threat as my co tank (again, DPS doesn’t mean a thing to me). A Druid, who does 70%-80% parses, can easily take aggro from me if he wants to. I don’t mind that a druid can do that, as long as he has to fight just as hard as I do, but the fact is, he doesn’t.

So hearing again and again about a time and people that I don’t see myself as part of, it starts to get incredibly exhausting.
I want balance, I’ve never talked about anything else on this forum.
So the “you andys,” I really don’t know what to do with that. Why should I be punished for something that happened at another time, when I was on the other side of the fence, and had to follow a specific rule?

It would be incredibly difficult for me, when we haven’t even gotten Dwarf Shamans yet.

So it’s really not to sound like an idiot, but you really make it out like you read half of what I write and then make up a bit of your own, mixed with your own opinions, which also have a lot of bitterness from the old days, making you sound more like a troll than anything else, someone who’s just out to ruin other people’s posts or frustrate them, so the actual point people are trying to make with their posts gets lost.

I’m not trying to start a discussion, more trying to bring some focus to the fact that some classes feel like this, if the devs constantly ignore people. If they’re actually trying a real attempt at Classic+, my clear wish is that no class or role of any kind will ever experience this. It’s not respecting there customers.

27

As a Warrior Andy, i can say for sure that DPS warrior is in a good place right now. Fun to play and blasts but not overpowered. On the tanking side however… I was asked to swap to tank in my guild because our tank is having IRL problems so had to step down for now and my thoughts immediately went to rogue instead of warrior because of the issues Miracleprime mentioned.

As a Warrior Andy, i cant stand when warrior is overpowered because every single raid you join is completely brown. This time around i can enjoy the class in a proper way. Dont have to compete with other 25 warriors for the same loot and in fact being that single warrior in the raid is nice. I feel like i’m needed for the buffs i bring.

Tank rogue also takes 6/9 DPS T3 and 2-3/9 Tank T3. Itemization around Defense sounded good initially but now it doesnt seem to make too much difference because of the 6 piece bonuses.

I’m also having a way better time as a rogue tank in Karazhan for example. Obviously rogue has its own problems but the class wasnt meant to be a tank and yet they made it work so its a rare Blizzard W.

Yeah it feels like it’s gonna be an AOE/Cleave heavy raid/patch and warriors getting shafted again feels incredibly wrong and bad. Bully your rogues/rets/druids to reroll tank and you can just enjoy the freedom of fury warrior in piece.

Edit: Before yall wanna yap about not having cd on thunderclap with the shoulder rune: We still need to press shield block and other abilities or use other runes/set bonuses from time to time to frigging survive and if we miss a couple globals of thunderclap, a random ret twist or an irrationally high threat shadow bolt volley crit can kill some people.

28

that doesn’t make it not true tho.
inappropriate =/= a lie.

i mean hey, at least you are getting a nax spot in a primary role (of tank) at that.
my enhancement shaman in 2019 was kicked out of the roster after 2 naxx raids for being a gimp (and literally nothing else).
you still have it far better by comparison to that… imagine literally being kicked out of a raid roster / guild solely because your class was DESIGNED to underperform to such an extreme degree that there is simply no justifying its spot in a raid roster through sheer numbers alone - and that is despite parsing in the world top 10.

you think you know what its like to work hard?
try playing a meme spec in vanilla wow and then compare it to your “weak” SOD warrior.

druid tank threat is currently OP.
it out-threats even shamans without even trying atm, and that’s with the shaman using improved (true) alpha.
i was out-performed by a tank druid recently (which is the first time i’ve been demolished on the threat meter) and while it did make me feel like a lesser man, i just accepted the facts and offtanked instead.
maybe next phase this changes. who knows.

in any case, it will be fine. i should count my lucky stars that being top-threat was as easy as it has been for as many phases as it has been so far.
no king rules forever and all that.

just like paladin and shaman players (and feral druids, boomkins and shadowpriests for that matter) just wanted balance in vanilla but was denied for 20 years, yes.

ooooo spoilers; the ally shaman / horde paladin thing have pretty much been cancelled… someone asked for confirmation on it on a platform called “bluesky” and aggrend himself basically sweeped it off the table with a “no i can’t confirm that, don’t change your plans”-comment.

here we go with the troll accusations.
bro, i’m not trolling, but i’m also not here to tell you what you want to hear, like why would i enable hypocrisy?.. even if you weren’t part of the OG warrior demography, it doesn’t change the fact that the attitude i am currently displaying is the exact same one they displayed, only mirrored back at the warrior playerbase.

i’m here to point out the extreme irony prostrated in this thread, and that doesn’t make me a troll.

also, just because i don’t respond to every single individual point/argument you are making doesn’t mean i didn’t read it.

objectively true.
i guess you are the rare example of a humble warrior player, in which case, sorry for causing offense, but its hard to assume otherwise when it comes to the warrior playerbase in SOD, because only a warrior andy would play warrior in this version of the game that was deliberately advertised - from since before its inception - as a version of classic where warriors would not enjoy the privileges of being the best at literally everything, like is the case in vanilla.

29

I assume you wanted to play in a guild where having an actual dead weight was unacceptable. If a class is DESIGNED to underperform, you wont get rostered. Its that simple. There were guilds where they supported meme specs such as balance druids, ret paladins, enhancement and elemental shamans, even feral druid to an extent and those guilds were called casual guilds. Your comparison in this case is not the best since you are trying to compare an actual dead weight of a spec to a tank spec which is suppose to perform well but thanks to some design, itemization and tuning decisions it doesnt.

It’s like me saying that i was pulling some 100s and rank 1s as resto dps in AQ but i didnt get rostered because i was playing a memespec. Nobody cares and irrelevant.
Classic did not and does not cater towards the casual player base in a sense where you can just play whatever you want and expect to be on the roster. Especially when it comes to higher performing guilds. They said “stop trolling and reroll warrior” for a reason.

Dont play memespecs in Classic if you want to raid in a better guild. Bringing another insert actual spec is always better than raiding with a roster of 39.5 people because they at least do damage.

30

Well, if I should only respond to things that have to do with SOD versions of the game…

Yes, Druids/Paladins definitely seem to be the best and easiest tanks in the game. I haven’t played with Shamans, but it seems like they are doing okay. I’m not entirely sure about Rogues, they seem to have some of the same problems as a Warrior, and Warlocks are somewhere in the middle of it all. However, there are bosses that don’t take as much fire/spell damage as they need to for tanking, so they’ve had to make some adjustments, which they’ve apparently done, from what I can remember.

The rest of what you wrote is not SoD, so it has nothing to do with my post. Therefore, I will respect your opinions, but with the best intention and suggest that you create your own post where you can express whatever you want to get your point across, about none-Sod unfair class balance.

have a nice day.

31

more like i played in that guild since the inception of vanilla (phase 1 of MC up to naxx) and it was never a real problem until we got to naxx, where despite my overwhelmingly good parses, the lack of pure dps numbers were too obvious to ignore.

it wasn’t even objectively a problem inside nax, because we managed to kill kel’thuzad despite my presence weighing the raid down, on the first week without any issues.

it was simply a matter of the then-officers/guild leader wanting to pump a few extra points of damage in, by replacing me with a class competent enough to do some numbers (such as a green geared fresh 60 dps warrior lol).
in hindsight i was definitely crutching on my friendships with guildies and hoping they would basically accept the dead-weightiness of my presence till the end, but by naxx it was no longer really acceptable, and i can see that objectively now that post-cope clarity has kicked in.

enhancement shaman works in vanilla for MC>BWL>ZG phases and falls off in AQ as they can no longer crutch on hand of rag for a slight advantage in dps, and by Naxx there is simply no hope due every other class getting massive weapon upgrades while enh shaman remains stale even in BIS gear.
might of menethil would have done little to change this because the numbers were simply so out of wack that a weapon with a 9-10 dps upgrade would literally change nothing.

the writing was on the wall by late phase of AQ, but i was huffing some serious copium at the time.
being kicked out for not being able to perform in pure dps in naxx was what personally confirmed to me that enh shaman in vanilla is simply not viable in the endgame - broken - even.

there is no itemization and their rotation and skillset just can’t compare to pure classes, and its not even close… like its a freaking country mile off in terms of power level, and now consider this; ret paladin was even more unviable than enhancement shaman in vanilla naxx phase.

like, this wasn’t just “hybrid tax” this was “hybrid tax times 50” at least.

the guilds i was in, in 2019 was definitely not what you would call “casual” by any extent of the imagination.
i was the rare exceptional case of a player who (used to be) able to perform decently despite being a memespec which was the reason they brought me along.

the kick from the roster only happened by the end of the game because we merged with a different guild who - at first - was okay with meme specs, but went back on that when they wanted to tryhard nax.

hell, i even won a duel tournament with my shaman, which is a testiment to my ability, all things considered. maybe i got lucky matchups, maybe my opponents sucked, maybe i’m just that good, but whatever the case, i was definitely not a “casual” andy.
i would never show up to a raid without full world buffs.
i’m the type of player that leveled a warlock just to summon the raid to BWL/AQ/Nax and spent hours and hours farming soul shards.

i hope i’ve made my point because this wall is growing too big for my own comfort.

good luck outperforming resto shamans as “resto dps” in AQ when you’re being tallied against actual resto shamans.
that’s not how it works bro.
you would simply never be able to get 100s like that, because you’re being tallied as a healer (who is dpsing) vs. other healers who heal, while enhancement shamans are being tallied against other enhancement shamans.
its not the same.

and there it is.
go reroll shaman or paladin in SOD then.
same philosophy.
stop being a waste of a slot mister half-of-a-player.

32

the reason i’m posting about “non-SOD unfair class balance” is because its a direct parallel to what the disparity of power levels used to be like in vanilla vs. SOD.

its literally the same issue, but in reverse (and not even to the same extreme degree).
i’m simply comparing an issue that stemmed from back then to an issue that stems from today, in SOD, and as you can see by the post made by the death knight player above, my point still hasn’t sunk in with the warrior andies.

so i shall continue until it does, thank you very much.

33

I feel you bro. Warrior recieve no love the entier SoD and devs seems not to care at all. After 20years of being main warrior, I even had the game in pause for 10 month for that. I come back to play my Paladin instead.

34

I’m sorry you had a bad experience with min-maxers when Warriors were completely broken. But you’re completely missing the point. There’s no such thing as a ‘Warrior community’—many of us either didn’t play Classic at all or just played casually, or were playing feral druid lmao. Yes, Warriors were absurdly overpowered, but that wasn’t because players willed it, genius. They just pushed the meta to its limits, and Blizzard, as usual, failed to fix anything. And by the way, it wasn’t exactly fun for anyone to be one of the 20 Warriors in a raid. If anything, casual players had it even worse, having to fight tooth and nail for scraps of gear. Class imbalance is the worst thing for the game, and those who asked for balance in Classic should still be asking for it now. (I’m one of them, by the way.)

35

Well, let me help you, here is the forum you are looking for: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/c/wow-classic/wow-classic-discussion/

Now I have said it nicely enough, I thank you for your many years in ALL these versions of WoW, but you are no longer wanted in my forum thread, please do not post in it anymore. Thank you in advance.

36

i’m afraid that’s not something you get to decide as this happens to be a public forum.
why should i be forbidden from posting in your thread?

37

Okay, cool, but if that’s true, then why did warrior players always have this spiteful “get out of my raid”-esque attitude towards classes that weren’t as “skilled” and “strong” and “knowledgeable” as them?

listen, i just think its a bit weird that now that the roles are reversed in terms of power, suddenly every warrior player has become super humble and neutral and accepting of those specs/classes who are weaker than themselves, and big (if not the biggest) advocates for “overall balance”.

really is quite a coincidence that activates my almonds.

you really do not have to go that far back, nor search far and wide to find warrior posters straight up bullying people for having the audacity to play something that isn’t super-meta.
even now, if you go to the classic anniversary (edit: sorry “classic general” and “hardcore”) forums you will find plenty of warrior avatars (posters) who are doing it - those people would be flooding SOD too with their toxicity if warrior was strong like it is in vanilla.

EDIT: it really is a shame that blizzard deleted all evidence of the 2019-2023 forums (including SOM)… i’m genuinely surprised to see anniversary didn’t even get its own dedicated forum, which i just assumed was the case tbh.

anyway, its a tale as old as time really:
meme specc/class posts on a classic wow forum asking for a justified buff so their spec can function - even just a little bit - and there, as if summoned, is a warrior poster who wants to put that player “in his place” (aka “put on the dress and heal me / put down WF totem, and preferably twist agi too, lowling”) and advocate for the requested buff not to happen and use a variety of tired arguments to justify it… the best example being “NO CHANGES” ofc.

that being said, i think i’ve made my point now.
i can read a room.
i’ll leave you guys to mope about warrior “unviability”.

38

Do you realize that the toxic min-maxers you’re talking about just follow the meta? They’re not playing Warrior in SoD and couldn’t care less about the class right now. You’re making yourself look ridiculous by assuming meta-chasers are the same people who have loved Warrior for decades. They’re not. Even in Classic, you could have surrounded yourself with a positive community and played a damn Moonkin or Ret Paladin all you wanted. But no—you chose to stick with the hardcore tryhards, and now you’re bitter about the rejection. If it hurts your little heart that bad, maybe you should blindly follow the meta… or better yet, uninstall and go get some fresh air.

2 Likes
39

Can we really call it overpowered when the only type of content they were good in is Raids?

40

I am sorry to hear that classic era warriors “scar”red you so deeply.

And raid-performance-wise (per the logs we are getting)… warriors in sod are okayish and top5 on some fights (if it is shorter than 40 seconds fight)…my “pain” is that outside of that, they are trash.