I have a video of Freehold 14 that I did on the first week of season two. The hunter finished first mainly because he did not die when I and the healer did and while I was dead he did tons of damage.
You can watch the video here - https://youtu.be/-cEW133ml5U
Common love of being able to run in circles like a ADHD kid without dps loss eh? 
Mages kinda are forced into qell positioning and riding through though due to the major dps losses the moment u dont comitt which ofcourse can generate deaths.
But as far as im aware these are being fixed in rework, with the removal of RoP and things although thats to be seen
This is just plain Wrong.
Mage pushing buttons have more surviabaility then a hunter in almost every case.
As MM is the spec to play not really you have BL but it is a massive dps loss for the hunter to use it.
Shimmer says hello and you can use it over bad stuff without taking damage.
That is called BM and is not the spec normally played these days.
MM has as many casts and as much of a reason to stand still as any Mage spec have.
Mage do NOT have complicated rotation.
However blizzard do not balance specs around this.
And Mage in organized groups are OP aoe damage yet you would totally dismiss this because it is not the pug experience yet it is a factor mage has.
Mage has the survivability to do the literal Highest keys in the game right now and you ignore this because you want to complain.
Thats your take that i heavily disagree tbh for certain this week they do more. Dmg wise they are also fine.
Restoration shamans are great for m+ ty.
You seems to hate hunters, shamans, a hunter can easily outdps you if you find a good one, also elemental shamans are not bad tbh, but ye you seem to be like other those people who see at Those bs Tierlists.
Barrier + Iceblock and very poor self-healing, while wars, dh, dk, and paladins heal like crazy.
You take shimmer you cant blink through stuns, roots, etc. No thanx
Orly? Do you want to say arcane rotation is easy? If u get interrupted, or you die during the rotation you lose all dps. If your class gets interrupted you lose nothing just put the bubble on and keep dpsing.
In organized groups which are called premades if you did not know and I stated that above. What about the rest of us who does not have a premade team for M+? Should we all quit or reroll? Why other classes are doing crazy dps without organized groups?
What survivability are you talking about? Iceblock is on a long CD. Barriers have also cds. Once your barrier is broken u have nothing while other classes can dps and self-heal like healers.
It is but we are talking shaman v mage whicj is only comparable from a dps to dps option as mage cant fill a healer role.
Eh, hunters are screeching for a rework equally to mage while proclaiming the same things.
The only thing ofcourse is. Mages reworks confirmed, while hunters will persist
Nobody invites mage for utility like food or int buff. 5% int is nothing and is only effective if you run with sp + mage + warlock. If you run like a dh or a rogue warrior etc your mage intellect becomes completely useless because just on a healer is not effective. They should buff back the 5% crit rate for arcane intellect.
again. nobody ever will bring mage for the utility. It suffers from dps. Frost and Fire is bad and Arcane too convoluded. It is terrible to play with so much things going on while every other dps just spams one aoe button and bam 400k sustained. Play a mage and you will see how crippled arcane dps is if the pull is not good, monster dies earlier or you mess up the sequence.
I wonder why those saying (essentially) mages need to ‘get good’/‘they are not that bad’ are not posting on mages…
Could it be they are making 5h1t up?
Probably.
Looks like they are some mage haters playing other classes telling us that we are good 
Yeah and when you dont hit with frozen orb or tank pulls mobs away from it. Its ruining all dps on that pack.
Mage are like russian soldiers in Ukraine just cannon fodder for hunter… Mage has never bin worse compared to other classes, thats prob why blizzard will rework it…
Bro, u doing something wrong if you cant survive with mage. I have a hunter also, and sometimes im struggleing with it, but with mage?? Mirror image, barrier, ice block, alter time, greater invis, tempest barrier etc… No man, mages have a very good survival toolkit you just have to use your spells.
Frost and Fire shares the same problem i guess. Both can do insane aoe on big MDI lvl pulls, but its not managable with pugs. It is perhaps a little easier to do well with frost, but yes when compared to other classes its sometimes pathetic. Honestly, sometimes I don’t even understand what’s going on with frost. There are times when the damage just doesn’t come out even if I do the same thing as on the previous packs, and i dont know why. I have paladin, hunter and devoker now, i never feel that issue with them.
Mages are not that bad, totally playable for CE / M+20. Happy now?
I dont think anyones saying Mages need to get to good, Most are very aware of there are issues with mages concerning performance, espically in unorganised groups.
P.S Reason i dont post on a mage, I quit mine Mage has been extremely unfun to play since Legion.
More likely, because when u call a class thats Shown to have 2 speccs in top 5 DPS it makes some feel awful knowing that they’re not making it above mid pack.
Players who play in premades I.E more organised enviroments will naturally have a different look on mages,
Mages issue has never been the Damage it can do, Its the fact that applying the Damage in a unorganised enviroment becomes a Steep slope upwards.
i never said it made u meta, I said theres classes u’d take a Mage over. and ive already agreed, mages have flaws and aware that in unorganised groups its DPS Becames a Losing battle.
Wrong Wrong Wrong and Wrong.
Mirror images are paper. Barrier’s absorption is too little on a 25 cd. Ice Block has 4 mins CD and you can’t do dmg while in block(at least now) and is only a soaking tool. So is greater invis dmg reduction(+ you can’t use it in solo due to dropping combat and makes monsters evade). Tempest barrier is not even worth the points. Alter time is only useful when you snapshot your life on max. It is a useless skill if you are on low hp.
Mage has great soaking tools for sure but zero life recovery which is the issue.
What is your problem to be sure? The fact that mages have to press their defensives? So barrier is bad? its like 20% of your hp absorb shield, 25 sec cd, +calculate shifting powers CDR on your defensives. For example hunter can heal 30% of his hp with 2min cd. THen talk about Alter Time, if you are smart and know WHEN to use it u can heal like 80-90% hp on yourself with 50 sec CD + AGAIN shifting power. Then comes to Ice block, on frost 2times with cold snap and wait cold snap resets barriers cd too. Mirror image not a big deal? Right but 20% damage reduct is 20%. No man, there is no problem with the mage if we talking about defensives, it just requires a little knowledge how to use them.
Because any heal hybrid class casts like 3 flash heal or equivalent and they are healing like 15% hp per cast with zero CD. Sure it cost mana but none of them uses mana as their dps spec so essentially it is just free recovery. They can cast like 5-6 times before ooming.
Based on this barrier should absorb like 40% life not 20. I would trade it to a spell that I can cast 5 times repeatedly and heals me for 10% life each.
In my opinion Barrier is kind of flawed. It can carry you so far. If the lost hp is not healed back you will eventually die and you need to rely on external healing since the mage has no recovery on their own. Look at any raiding mages die first if they are out of their dmg reduction tools since healers don’t top them instantly and they just bleed out. Literally every other class has some sort of self healing that they can help healers with besides their own dmg reduction cds.
If you are on 20% life your alter time worth absolutely nothing. It is only good if you snapshot your life on max. It is flawed. I would trade it for like a 30% life recovery on 1 minute CD if I could.
Nobody uses the ice block regen it is a pvp thing. Ice block is just used to either avoid a dmg that would kill you or delete debuffs on yourself. You basically just ice block for 2 seconds then cancel the aura. You won’t sit in iceblock for 10 seconds. Nobody does. That is not how mages play.
Mirror images are a joke. They die too fast and it is again just a dmg reduction which I said mage has great dmg reduction tools. Did not you read? Mage needs recovery but they refuse to give any because of the class fantasy. In the lore mages can’t heal. They only forget this is a game and players need to be given regen/recovery/leech to survive.
Look at any non hybrid healing class then like rogue or warlock. Warlock has so much recovery I won’t even attempt to list but mortal coil heals for 20% life on 45 sec cd. Rogue has Crimson Vial that heals 20% on 30 sec cd. These classes not a healer classes yet have recovery. Mage can conjure up stuff. Here it is a healing vial that heals 20% on 40 sec cd and even fits into lore. They are just lazy and not creative enough to fix problems.
I won’t argue with you, if you don’t understand the potency of the mage defensives then u should roll to a priest or a shaman. But to be clear if you playing with a team it is not your job to heal yourself as a dps, if you can avoid enough damage to make it easier for the healer to keep you alive its fair enough. Thats how this game works. You mantioned that you cant do damage in ice block, its right, but when a priest or a shaman have to cast 2-3 heals they can do damage?
They can assist with healing and better than dying. I can’t do anything if I just sit in Ice Block waiting for healers to heal me. You know how many times healers don’t heal even if you spend the full duration in ice block which you should not but it ends and still received zero healing.