People are asking for non downgrading when a key is not finished. Without the downgrading you keep the exact same key. That means whatever you do, you can pull 10 times the first pull and walk out and try again. Or you just do not succeed in time while being at the last boss, wipe walk out and you want to try again. That means you do the same key over and over and over again. And no, i am not interesting that gameplay. Right now we are more suited by just finishing the key. Out of time. Fine. We get a different key.
Oh i am sorry doing the exact same but -1 instead is peak fun.
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Just stop hyperboling.
I even suggested a charge system.
Imho the M+ Timer should only matter for upgrading the key but not downgrading.
If you beat the last boss and mob count in there you beat the dungeon.
If the timer wasn’t a thing my guild would have so much more fun doing M+.
Because the challenge is still there, but you get to actually enjoy the dungeon much more than the current go,go,go-mindset.
Downgrading should only happen if the dungeon is aborted.
group disbands or whatever.
I understand that this would mean you could technically be up to 4 hours and more in a dungeon to complete it … but honestly who would do that.
As for M+ score don’t give score if you don’t improve the last weeks result.
Say if you do a 15 and not time it, the key changes to another dungeon at 15 but you don’t get score.
Also I would be OK if there would be less items at the end. beating the timer will reward more items as usual.
there is a ton of toxicity but it happens mainly in "mid " keys - like 12-17 - which are filled with undergeared , underscored crowd desperate for each key completion
when you are in like 19-21 you dont care as much because you know that most likely 1 bug mistake means that key is gone - so you already go in there with this mindset that run may fail .
you also dont have people who just start gearing etc there because if someone is not 300 itlv and 2300 score he knows that likely he wont get invite in first place.
Most people with half a brain will realize at that point they’re probably not going to be able to finish that key, so the can go and lower it. Alternatively, if the option existed, they could go to the same NPC that lowers the key and reroll it to a different key instead. Same options, except the keyholder has a say in it.
A very shocking and scary concept, I know. We should instead join dedicated communities and leech from other people’s keys if someone bricks ours.
Then just don’t do the same key over and over again. If it’s too high, lower it and finish it on a lower level. If it’s not a dungeon you want to do, reroll and finish a different one instead. As I’ve said like 5 times by now, you just can’t wrap your mind around that without depletion, you wouldn’t suddenly have no choice but to do the same key over and over. Different systems can be created that don’t involve screwing over the keyholder big time. But no, let’s not give players more agency over their time. We have to keep depletion because if it doesn’t negatively affect you, then it’s good and screw everyone else.
But honestly at this point, I’d have more success teaching my grandma’s cat how to code than I’ll have explaining literally any concept to you. It’s as if you think what you’ve not seen with your own eyes can’t possibly exist or work.
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Lets agree to disagree on this one. No reason to reply since you do not accept my preferences and by that oppinion.
Good talk anyway.
I already proposed this but here my idea.
Keys get depleted upon completion but,
following week you get in the chest the level of the highest key you’ve done.
Like if you’ve got a 24, you finish a 24 not on time, your key goes to 23, next week you still get a 24.
I’ve never had anyone leave a key when I picked the group, and I’ve made many posts on these forums explaining the process I use to select the right people. But people are too lazy to do that, and would rather pick the meta spec with the highest score and hope. Then they come here to complain about a problem they created themselves.
Translated: “People are to blame cause they don’t wanna spend 3/4 of their limited playtime looking up people and scanning the crap out of them in the hope they dont leave your key as a workaround to a system that could simply not create this problem by default”
Nice, more great suggestions by Tyssera to follow.
You can still have fun with your friends in a key even if the key isn’t timed though.
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I feel that, at some point, Blizzard should choose wheter they want a game mainly designed for solo players (PuGs) or premade groups (guilds, communities, usw…)
It becomes more and more apparent that they can’t separate game practices within game modes.
Having a competitive feature while trying to unite people that care about that aspect and those who don’t is a very flawed thinking imo.
… blah, blah, blah.
If they’d rather spend all of their limited play time failing to complete any keys, that’s on them. I guess everyone has their own idea of fun.
By your logic = if a raid boss is difficult then the solution is for Blizz to nerf it to the ground. Getting better or “gud” at it is just some stupid workaround? 
Same principle for m+. You got an challenge or obstacle. Doing what other people have suggested already and have a pleasant time doing m+ is a stupid workaround, better complain at Blizz for some handholding solution?
Your “suggestions” are what can be resumed as
Because at the end of the day, you don’t know who you are inviting in a pug environment, so the chance of random people screwing your key and leaving you with -1 is still there. (And no i don’t belive your “nOnE eVeR lEfT mY gRoUp”).
People would rather play the game instead of scanning the crap out of people just because the system is poorly made and double punish the keyholder only in case things goes south.
Sure, i guess that if you can sit in fron of your computer an entire day you can dedicate more time to being picky just so people don’t screw you over 
OR Blizzard could simply avoid key depleting, so everyone in the group is punished equally, given that 4 people suffer no consequences (except the obvious time wasted in a non completed run), but one gets also an extra -1 to their key.
It’s a stupid mechanism that could be changed with something else drastically reducing frustration and toxicity.
So you are comparing a bad system with a boss difficulty?
By your logic you should smash your hands and play with your feet. Being able to play properly is a stupid workaround at the end of the day, isn’t it?
It’s not an obstacle, it’s a poorly made system, that can be worked around, sure. It still stays a poorly made system that could adopt better solutions and not punish keyholders.
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What if the boss has communication/coordination heavy tactics? Easy to do with guild since most of them are on active communications while a nightmare with pugs cause most can’t even type “Hi!” in chat?
Difficult boss or bad boss design cause its not “pug friendly”?
its a “poorly” made system for pugs and I believe that there was even a post that Blizz themselves announced that it was designed for pre-made group of people you know(hence their reluctance to introduce leaver penalties and etc).
If you for some reason can’t or wont do m+ with friends, guild, community and want the quality of life and convenience with pugging = then expect to pay the price for it.
Can’t have cake and eat it too.
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99.9% of the time WAs solves the problem.
I don’t take Mythic into consideration cause IDs make it non-puggable in a proper way.
Penalties should not be there cause they will always be abusable in a player driven system. Like, even if the system was made for pugs, Penalties to leavers/etc would be a reciper for a disaster.
Problem is that the -1 in keys does not really serves any purpose. It just creates this extra time-cost for failing your key. Is kinda like old Legion key-break system.
We could be here pretending we were talking about that, and you would be telling me the same things you said for the -1. But what happened to Legion Key-breaking? It’s gone because it served no purpose.
And to me, keys going -1 is the same. Failing is already the punishment, and that is fair.
The old Legion key failing mechanic was too punishing, you had to re-do the same dungeon twice for the reward of one. While the current is not as punishing, doing a dungeon 1 level below, still gives you loot, helps with the weekly vault, even rio score(depending on your current scores).
It is not a punishment because usually most push keys you are not able to time. You get a -1 key and you are able to time that key again. It is some kind of redemption. Without the -1 you end up bashing your head against keys you are not able to do. With keys going up and down you stay in the winning mood. It is totally fine not timing keys, but never timing keys is not cool either.
But anyway; i suggested a system where you could have 2 charges for 2 chances on the same key, and no downgrading when you are just 5% over the timer. Because then you are playing on your ‘correct’ keylevel. I also do not think it makes sense to +1 a key with 1 second in time, and -1 a key with 1 second over the time.
Oh I sure hope that If WoW comes to console, addons will be a thing of the past.
What if you want the challenge but enjoy the dungeon completely?