What are the weaknesses of Rogue?

PVP Arenas
21
11/11/2018 02:42Posted by Whisperer
10/11/2018 20:10Posted by Dameg
Rogue has a 30% feint on a 15 second CD which adds some skillcap


actually it does not, classes that actually have to waste long CD to pre-wall need to have skill cap

rogue that has it again in 10 seconds if he messed up isn't much skill cap added in my opinion


Right...and how many classes have that? Like sod all without some other compensation.
22
11/11/2018 08:48Posted by Nexintus
Right...and how many classes have that? Like sod all without some other compensation.

not even rogue is without compensation
not only you have wall on 15 sec CD
you also have immunities
and stealth
and kidneys for peeling for yourself
23
11/11/2018 10:42Posted by Whisperer
11/11/2018 08:48Posted by Nexintus
Right...and how many classes have that? Like sod all without some other compensation.

not even rogue is without compensation
not only you have wall on 15 sec CD
you also have immunities
and stealth
and kidneys for peeling for yourself

Well you missed my point. How many classes actually have preemptive walls without something else thats passive?

And lol kidney to peel myself and immunities. Right all of which require me to be out of cc and reduces the goes of my team by 40seconds leaving us playing defensive for quite some time.
24
11/11/2018 11:17Posted by Nexintus
Well you missed my point. How many classes actually have preemptive walls without something else thats passive?

And lol kidney to peel myself and immunities. Right all of which require me to be out of cc and reduces the goes of my team by 40seconds leaving us playing defensive for quite some time.


No but you are missing the point.

It doesn't matter whether you believe they are good enough or not in the current meta. It matters that they exist.

If rogue has decent mobility, great dps, great (best) cc, decent utility and sustain, and defensives, it has everything.

A shadow priest for example is nearly (completely) immobile. An arms warrior has no sustain. Mage has no sustain either (save for conjured food). Paladin lags behind in mobility. And so on.

All other specs, in accordance to Blizzard's game design, have cleary made weaknesses. But rogues do not.

How can you argue that that is fair in any way, shape or form?

Which part of your toolkit are you ready to give away? Defensives seem like the only option to me.

BTW dying in stun is an irrelevant argument because everybody else drops in those too, save for SP's, Boomkins in bearform and a few other specs.
25
11/11/2018 11:17Posted by Nexintus

Well you missed my point. How many classes actually have preemptive walls without something else thats passive?

And lol kidney to peel myself and immunities. Right all of which require me to be out of cc and reduces the goes of my team by 40seconds leaving us playing defensive for quite some time.


Oh fcked feint, no probs cloak if caster/eva, isn't enough just vanish. Oh !@#$ up that too step to healer and kite. %^-*edup that to no probs still got blind/kidney.
Rogues have everything and even more. I would not care, if we'd be in mop and not saying to prune them, but I'd love to have half of their toolkit for example on my uh.

PS: let them keep them idc, but bring back REDIRECT.
26
11/11/2018 16:23Posted by Nælys
11/11/2018 11:17Posted by Nexintus

Well you missed my point. How many classes actually have preemptive walls without something else thats passive?

And lol kidney to peel myself and immunities. Right all of which require me to be out of cc and reduces the goes of my team by 40seconds leaving us playing defensive for quite some time.


Oh fcked feint, no probs cloak if caster/eva, isn't enough just vanish. Oh !@#$ up that too step to healer and kite. %^-*edup that to no probs still got blind/kidney.
Rogues have everything and even more. I would not care, if we'd be in mop and not saying to prune them, but I'd love to have half of their toolkit for example on my uh.

PS: let them keep them idc, but bring back REDIRECT.


Dunno how you usually play but that sounds like a sure way to lose.

Besides, can't evasion/cloak in a stun. Evasion isn't even a counter to most stuns. It's after all not an immunity.
27
alot of low rated people in here talking about balance
:thinking:
28
11/11/2018 17:28Posted by Cróws


Dunno how you usually play but that sounds like a sure way to lose.

Besides, can't evasion/cloak in a stun. Evasion isn't even a counter to most stuns. It's after all not an immunity.


All I wanted to say was, that they can use those tools either to peel for teammates or for themselves which can give some time to their healer to heal them back :)
But I guess you take everything literally.
Eva/cloak not usable while stunned, now srsly? Why should they be able to use it while stunned arrent they overtuned with defensives already? Also Eva not giving immunity for all the stuns, oh the poor rogues how can they live that way I can't even imagine. Eva should negate only the melee damage, shouldn't be a stunning immunity idk why did you say that, because i did not say that it's an immunity.
Also idk if you realised but you can't DODGE things while stunned and it would be pretty useless anyway.
Cloak is Okey I have no problem with it. But giving vial to rogue was pretty dumb, idk who was that genius.
Don't forget about feint... It costs resource and a talent? I would not care at all, I'd take it happily any day a 15sec cd wall, only downside it is preemptive, but who cares. Would love to see such a mechanism for locks, let's say make it cost 3 shards would take it any day instead of DS/DP.
I don't have problem with their mobility, they are a leather class they should be mobile, but they should not be this tanky, that's for platies. And on top of their toolkit and damage they should not have a 30 sec cd heal :). That's just my 2 cents.
Also not playing rogue because I don't like them except for outlaw but there are way too much fotm rerollers and don't want to join their horde.
29
They take a lot of damage? Rogues and DH's are the once that i feel i can burst the hardest during stun windows, you can if you line up your abilites well drop them from 70% ish to 0 in a stun.

They have no passive migation and very little selfhealing, i suppose thats their 'weakness'?
30
11/11/2018 13:44Posted by Atahalni
11/11/2018 11:17Posted by Nexintus
Well you missed my point. How many classes actually have preemptive walls without something else thats passive?

And lol kidney to peel myself and immunities. Right all of which require me to be out of cc and reduces the goes of my team by 40seconds leaving us playing defensive for quite some time.


No but you are missing the point.

It doesn't matter whether you believe they are good enough or not in the current meta. It matters that they exist.

If rogue has decent mobility, great dps, great (best) cc, decent utility and sustain, and defensives, it has everything.

A shadow priest for example is nearly (completely) immobile. An arms warrior has no sustain. Mage has no sustain either (save for conjured food). Paladin lags behind in mobility. And so on.

All other specs, in accordance to Blizzard's game design, have cleary made weaknesses. But rogues do not.

How can you argue that that is fair in any way, shape or form?

Which part of your toolkit are you ready to give away? Defensives seem like the only option to me.

BTW dying in stun is an irrelevant argument because everybody else drops in those too, save for SP's, Boomkins in bearform and a few other specs.


LOL, what's your rating? Ur saying that a shadow priest has it worse than a rogue?? outlaw/!@# compared to spriest in arena is like, rogue is good, spriest is great, actually OPOP. And those arguments lol. Mages doesnt need sustain, they have mulitple other defensives making them hard to even touch, thats why we queue with a healer in 3v3 arena you know.
That just says enough.
Please let blizzard to the balancing. Atleast watch tourneys or high rated player and comps before you voice strong opinions.
Generally, shamans, warriors, priests, rogues, druids, they are all performing well right now, rogue is not considered more OP than any of those. But yeah, rogue is good, I'll give you that, but this post is just wrong.
31
There are no weaknesses to rogues. I've mained rogue for too long to know that fact.
32
Rogues got:
Good sustain DMG
Good burst
Good defensives
Good control
Good healing...opps.

That's it!

Rogues can't heal you party, that is their weakness?
33
12/11/2018 02:42Posted by Valorous
They take a lot of damage? Rogues and DH's are the once that i feel i can burst the hardest during stun windows, you can if you line up your abilites well drop them from 70% ish to 0 in a stun.

They have no passive migation and very little selfhealing, i suppose thats their 'weakness'?

Lol pre feint says hy
34
They cannot heal the others?
35
12/11/2018 03:43Posted by Doomchamp
Ur saying that a shadow priest has it worse than a rogue??


No, I'm saying that rogue has no clearly defined weaknesses, if you look at their kit.
Shadow priests are immobile.
Warriors can't self heal (arms).
And so on.

That's factually true.

12/11/2018 03:43Posted by Doomchamp
Mages doesnt need sustain, they have mulitple other defensives making them hard to even touch, thats why we queue with a healer in 3v3 arena you know.


Well that's all well and good memeing without actually answering the point, but whatever.

Ion hazzikostas himself said that their design philosophy is that every spec/class should have a clearly defined weakness. That's not coming from me. That's from him.

Rogues factually speaking have no weakness (clear one). Yes, you can overcome any of these traits they have ultimately with comps on 3v3 but there's other content than 3v3 in the game too (including 2v2 which is far more popular than the 3v3 ladder), and even if you completely disregard that example simply based on "lol nothing else than 3v3 matters", it's still a problem because Blizzard themselves have made it so that the game's supposed to be rock paper scissors game (style which I disagree with), only that rogues can be all of them at once.

Their state isn't apologized for by pointing out other atm broken mechanics in the game (Burst is way too high for several specs like rets, balance, fire, rogue, fury, enha, etc, while defensives are too high for specs like shadow priest, and some healers are just way better than others, see resto shaman), which also need to be fixed.

If you want to have an argument at least be intellectual about it.

12/11/2018 03:43Posted by Doomchamp
Please let blizzard to the balancing. Atleast watch tourneys or high rated player and comps before you voice strong opinions.


Tourneys make barely a % of the playerbase, probably far less, and do not speak for the rest of the ladder. Balance is always based on multiple things, not just the opinions of the most highest rated.

Just because a rogue didn't win this year in Blizzcon doesn't mean that other specs are op (they are), but that doesn't excuse rogues ridiculousness either.
36
12/11/2018 05:27Posted by Jalisco
Rogues can't heal you party, that is their weakness?

technically they can, they can bring Healthstones, can't they?
actually better version of Healthstones than even actual Healthstone is
37
12/11/2018 11:03Posted by Whisperer
12/11/2018 05:27Posted by Jalisco
Rogues can't heal you party, that is their weakness?

technically they can, they can bring Healthstones, can't they?
actually better version of Healthstones than even actual Healthstone is


I stand corrected.

No know weaknesses.
38
11/11/2018 19:53Posted by Nælys
All I wanted to say was, that they can use those tools either to peel for teammates or for themselves which can give some time to their healer to heal them back :)


So... the problem you are having is how crap rogues can survive for a bit longer before meeting their inevitable demise since they threw away their cd's like that?

11/11/2018 19:53Posted by Nælys
Eva/cloak not usable while stunned, now srsly? Why should they be able to use it while stunned arrent they overtuned with defensives already? Also Eva not giving immunity for all the stuns, oh the poor rogues how can they live that way I can't even imagine. Eva should negate only the melee damage, shouldn't be a stunning immunity idk why did you say that, because i did not say that it's an immunity.
Also idk if you realised but you can't DODGE things while stunned and it would be pretty useless anyway.


Strawman much?
39
12/11/2018 11:03Posted by Whisperer
12/11/2018 05:27Posted by Jalisco
Rogues can't heal you party, that is their weakness?

technically they can, they can bring Healthstones, can't they?
actually better version of Healthstones than even actual Healthstone is


Is this the Rogue with the silence, with the amazing burst or with the amazing CC?
40
12/11/2018 20:39Posted by Nexintus
12/11/2018 11:03Posted by Whisperer
...
technically they can, they can bring Healthstones, can't they?
actually better version of Healthstones than even actual Healthstone is


Is this the Rogue with the silence, with the amazing burst or with the amazing CC?


This is the rogue with everything.