What are you expecting from the Outlaw Rogue Rework?

Classes Rogue
1

As many of you know, the rogue rework is coming sooner or later. I’ve been thinking what would be good quality of life changes for the specialization itself.

First and foremost: Roll The Bones. In my honest opinion, I like the ability itself, but it tries to do too much I think, the buffs it gives have to be on par with each other to avoid the RNG.

Blade Flurry: I’ve always liked Blade Flurry but hate it in its current state. I cannot precast, it is on global cooldown and does absolutely nothing with its initial damage. I really hate, that many other classes have zero target restrictions, yet we have to talent into having up to 8 targets. → I’d remove it from GCD and unrestrict the target cap.

Between The Eyes: I’d love if the debuff wasn’t applied to a target but rather as a buff to myself. I really hate it when I have to target out to interrupt several targets, either kick, kidney shot, blind or whatever and then finding my original target which I used BTE on.

Slice and Dice: Since the new Grand Melee change this ability has become one of my most hated abilities. Wasting combo points on SnD feels dreadful. I’d either completely remove the ability OR make it a passive that rogues have 50% increased attack speed. Another solution would be for Outlaw as they use SnD more frequently than other specs, that the duration could be increased.

Fan The Hammer and Opportunity Talents: I think the nerf to this combination wasn’t necessary combo points wise atleast.

Mastery: I don’t really know what to say about this one. Mastery feels irrelevant.

Haste: Haste is one of my favorite stats but seems pretty useless after you have a little. I’d love it if haste was more impactful.

I really like Outlaw and has been my main since release, and I’ve been playing Combat Rogue since BC.

Outlaw feels unique, I really love how it resembles a quick and agile fighter that stands toe to toe like a Warrior but is quicker to do so.

These are the changes I’d love to see, but I am open to a lot more thoughts. What do you, my fellow Outlaws say on this topic? What would be something you absolutely loved if changed / introduced / tuned?

4 Likes
2

Remove slice and dice completely
Roll the bones reduce the max amount of buffs you get and combine the weakest
Blade flurry - change back to the toggle version
Killing spree - buff this to make it do more than tickle

In general I’d like to see them look at numbers of individual abilities rather than across the board buffs. Finishers should be impactful

3

Slice and dice passive for all specs.

Blade flurry generates 1 combo point per target hit, double with grand melee, this would also work with seal fate and broadsides, so you can get up to 4 combo points in st, and in aoe you could get up to 8 max. This would fix blade flurry, and also make grand melee suck less than it does right now for st.

Buried treasure reworked into allowing you to use 1 more combo point.

Energy regen adjusted for the loss of treasure flat regen.

4

My expectations at the minimum:

  • Remove all ‘Improved X’ talents from the tree and make them baseline to the abilities they used to improve.
  • Make the talent tree significantly more interconnected and less railroaded into set paths past the first tier
  • Change Outlaw’s Mastery to something genuinely worthwhile, such as improving CDR from Restless Blades
  • Make the old Grand Melee effect baseline, or an early talent, or otherwise just remove Slice and Dice and increase our base attack speed
  • Remove target cap on Blade Flurry and make its on-use damage significantly higher
  • Make energy regeneration more powerful, like it was in beta
  • Bring back Greed as a new talent, and return Dreadblades to the strength of its Legion version (10% damage increase ontop of standard effect, for 12 seconds)
  • Make Roll the Bones more consistent; could be anything from improving the outliers (GM and BD), cutting the outliers, make double buffs the minimum number you’ll get instead of a single buff, etc
  • Implement powerful new talents that improve Outlaw’s core strengths
  • Cut Sepsis and Ghostly Strike in favour of either new talents or Flagellation/Bone Spikes
  • FIX GRAPPLING HOOK
2 Likes
5

I’m on the same boat. What I hope, and what I expect, those are very different things. Judging by history, effectively from Mists onwards, Rogues don’t tend to get any more attention, than is required to get them shippable. That is why there are so many outdated mechanics, and why the Class and each Spec lack a cohesive vision, instead functioning more like a jerry-rigged collection of gizmos and thingamajigs just all thrown into the same bag.

What I hope would be a massive redesign for the whole Class. It would start with removing unnecessary bloat and redundancies. We don’t need 5 Talents affecting the same abilities in the same way. I’d also simplify unnecessarily complex mechanics, as in practice, while they are complex on paper, their affect on actual gameplay tends to very shallow. Alacrity and Thistle Tea are just bad, remove them. Roll the Bones is simply doing too many things. Removing the weakest buffs would make the remaining ones feel better.

Talent Tree pathing should be very open, so you actually have choices to make. Right now, the Cap Talent defines your whole Path. There is no reason to have any Talent cost more than 2 Points, and arguably even 2-pointers feel wasteful. +Stat Talents are boring, uninspiring, and just unnecessary clutter. They also devalue the Stats on our Gear, but often feel forced on us due to being mathematically strong. +Stat Talents actively remove choice and agency from the Player, so they need to go. Talents should either grant you abilities, or enhance the existing ones in ways, that make them feel different to use.

Class Talents should be about Rogue Identity, about things that are true for all Specs, what connects them. This would be general Utility and offensive abilities, like the SL Covenant abilities. Spec Trees should be about what makes them stand out from each other, so this would be specific Utility, and Flavor. CDR effects feel fitting to the Outlaw fantasy, but they actively work against what Assassination and Subtlety are about.

I’d remove CDR Talents, and turn Restless Blades into the Mastery for Outlaw. It would make the Stat into something actually interesting, something that would really change how you play, and gearing up would make you feel more powerful through gameplay, instead of being something you just review passively from Logs.

I’d remove Slice and Dice completely. It doesn’t offer anything, that couldn’t be achieved in much more engaging ways.

All the SL Covenant Abilities would be put into the Class Tree as Choice Nodes. Adding more buttons slows down the gameplay, and has you looking at your keyboard more often, instead of the screen. We don’t need more abilities, but instead, we need more choice in what abilities we get.

Utility should never be put against Damage. Instead, Utility should be balanced against other Utility. Things like “Do I want a passive Leeching Poison, or do I want a stronger Crimson Vial”. A good example of what works is how Cheat Death and Elusiveness are on the same Talent Node.

Remove Target Cap from Blade Flurry, but put diminishing returns after reaching a certain amount of targets.

6

Outlaw rogue rework is something that blues said and if so can you post link or is this one of those day dreaming posts?

Nvm, found it on NA forum as EU seems to be dead. So we are finally geting rework.

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My expectation is that people would complain. Including me! I already have stuff prepared for snd being and not being removed. Spoilers - both are literally slaps in the face.

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A choice node between Rupture or Between the Eyes

1 Like
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I’m gonna say, add the blade flurry combo point generation as i said before, but rework grand melee.

It’s just not fun to play with in st, even if they did add combo points to blade flurry, outlaw frankly has enough things to keep track of. If you need to keep track of blade flurry in st too, but only during grand melee, it just becomes annoying, and it’s frankly not fun to play around, because it doesn’t add anything for gameplay, there is nothing cool that happens when you press blade flurry in st, aside some more damage.

Maybe grand melee could add back the shadowlands 4 tier set, where proccing 6 pistol shots would automatically proc a fully empowered between the eyes. Or something like that. Obviously it would be re adjusted in order to not be too strong.

Also, main gauche should become a passive, and instead outlaw mastery should increase the effectiveness of your roll the bones buffs. Though this would favor keep it rolling a lot more, so the idea i like, but i honestly don’t know how to resolve this issue, aside just straight up making kir baseline, which is likely not gonna happen.

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and assa rog bro? worst then outlaw rn.
and weaker than the outlaw

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When is this reworking taking place?

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10.2. Was meant to happen in 10.1.5 but the rogue dev had to take time off for some reason

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I skipped a few expacs as rogue, but to me, these changes don’t feel like they solve the underlying issue with Outlaw.

The button juggling is still going to be the same. Slice and Dice, Roll the Bones, both still there. We get some “fun” things to try, like the new Killing Spree, or the BtE from Stealth. But it feels like we’re still going to be juggling all the things, to try and get an ok payout.

But I could be wrong, and it is PTR so even if I am partially right, hopefully it might get changed.

Also, as a rogue since Vanilla, if you had of told me one day, one of our specs could have 300 energy, I’d call you crazy.

14

Well, i wasn’t expecting this, that’s certain.

15

You can say it was sudden.

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Well to be honest, the only problem i have was the removal of seal fate from the class tree, but that’s more of a problem for sub than outlaw.

A few tweaks and outlaw might just be the best spec they have ever done.

Especially with the tier.

17

Dont worry u will be OP and be the new meta like every other rework they did.

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