then people will wait for all cooldowns and BL to guarantee each pull is a success. Try and have some foresight. It would be garbage
I agree in a way. I like to play m+ simply because its m+.
I am not looking for 3 hour “5 man raids”.
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that don’t give loot per boss, just a chance for some at the end
They can simply limit how many times you can use BL per run, say max 3 charges. Problem solved! Same goes for CR!
That would partly help, sure. But then the run is over once you’ve use last bl. Basically.
Also you still need to wait for CDs between pulls.
The point is the timer is fine. It’s just a fail condition like running out of bl would be
Well but you still have degenerate behaviour as of now, it’s just a different flavour
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Wouldn’t really make for what i reckon most M+ focused players find to be an enjoyable gaming experience. One of the current frustrations already is the +7 affix and how it puts more of an emphasis on going slow and methodical instead of pushing the limits for pull-size. At least until one hits a key level where those pulls become mandatory in order to have the required dps for the timer.
On the top end it’d still be the same issue of survival in terms of raw numbers, just without the added difficulty of needing the overall dps to meet the timer requirement. On the lower end i’d just turn it into a slower gaming experience with more potential for frustration, especially if the real survival walls are later into a dungeon run.
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- No need to remove timers, just to loosen them a bit since mathematical difficulty is condensed now.
- Remove peril and guile and bring back sanguine or whatever.
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I’ve been saying this every time this system has been suggested, but I don’t really think it’s what would happen anymore.
Take a given key, where you feel that yes, we can reliably kill the bosses in here, given we have all cooldowns and BL ready.
Then, for that same key, also say you can kill the trash with no pressure to be efficient. You can do the packs one at a time, you can kill rather than skip, you can use hard CC like Polymorph. You don’t need AoE builds and you need way fewer kicks/stops. You can, where applicable, get your count from easy mobs instead of those that fit smoothly into a time-restricted route.
Do you really think, under these circumstances, people will think aw hell no, way too hard if we don’t have BL for every pull. If you need every crutch and cooldown for trash packs under these conditions, how do you expect to kill any boss? Unless your group is like, full DKs and warriors, but every lust class has a hard CC.
I expect it would be more like doing a dungeon in Hardcore. You just don’t pull more than you need to, and you err on the side of caution.
All this said, I still don’t agree with the idea.
Timer is fine, just remove the damn 15 seconds death penalty, if the key isn’t timed let it stay at the same lvl as it was unless the key holder wants to deplete it, let people choose their key and increase the rewards or make everything upgradable to max, no one wants to farm the same item 3 times.
you could even limit bloodlusts to 2 per dungeon if you wanted to.
but certainly people would wait for CDs between pulls and there would be no solution. But the downside obviously is that a +20 key now takes 2h to finish and I dont know if people would do that
you underestimate the degeneracy
wouldnt affect me so idc.
I mean it really wouldnt bother me at all if some people spent 5 hours in 1 dungeon to complete it for their epeen on raider io.
I am not a title runner, so it doesnt matter for me and also 99.9% of the forum either.
on the other hand I also dont care about the timer. Untimed completes are quite rare for me
It’d lead to the most degenerate gameplay imaginable. Hard pass.
Plus, it’d put much more “stress” on the tank. 1 death from a DPS => just CR the fella and continue. 1 death of the tank => if lucky a quick CR prevented further damage but most of the time this lingers to a full wipe => 1 death suddenly equals 5 deaths. So the tank-role got 5 times more punishing than the DPS role.
Horrendous idea. If the issue is that there is too much focus on the timer, then tweak the rewards for untimed runs.
The death counter in Delves is very punishing in groups because it doesnt go up to account for the number of players.
So what happens when you run out of lives. You cant complete it and get rewards? This would make gearing worse. Esp when a tank death is often the cauae for a full group wipe.
If they are removing the timer, would they also remove the key system and just let people go to whatever dungeon they want, like you can with Delves?
I’m not sure what this is really a solution to the leaver issues in pug groups. Or is it just meant for people that don’t like timers.
They really will do anything to avoid admitting the peril affix was a mistake…
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Tbf people that write guides (actual ones like on IV and WoWhead) are usually high end players as well.
Keys will be more on the " safe " pull side , m+ will get so boring , tanks will pull mob by mob , there won’t be very little reason to care about dps players , the dps meter will be boring to look at , like who cares ? you just need to not die with the tank doing small pulls right ?.
This is similar to making m+ as the delve concept , the m+ scene and the mdi / pro player scene will be so blend , not enjoyable to watch at all , m+ will basically turn into a casual scene.
Perhaps because it wasn’t? It had, most likely, a very specific goal - and it succeeded in that context. That it had some consequences, eh, so be it. I don’t mind the peril so much.
If the goal doesn’t make the game fun. It doesn’t matter whether it was met or not.
Blizzard could set a goal that every raid takes 200 hours to clear, and a mechanic succeed at achieving that, it’d still be a bad decision
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