What is a True World PvP'er? - Ideas for Warmode

PVP War Mode and World PvP
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You are putting too much emphasis on winning!
All you care about is winning and you are engaging in mindless slaughter just so you can get the win.
You are farming people like animals in 5v1’s…constantly…everyday…non stop.
Winning, winning, winning, winning

And for what? The win means nothing when its a 5v1.
It means nothing.

Im just trying to say…

It wouldnt hurt anyone if Blizzard implemented a Blood Coin system…

Thats all im saying.

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And you are wrong … it means axactly the same as winning in 1v1. It is just much easier … and at the same time less fun. But the reward is the same.

Unfortunately the reward is main motivation and not the fun.

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I completely agree with you the “Overwhelming Odds” Alliance only quest promotes 5v1’s (dishonorable action)

And thats entirely my point

Instead of having more “Overwhelming Odds” in the future…we could have a “fun” little system of Blood Coins that promotes “solo” play…just a tiny bit? Please?

So we dont incentivize more mindless slaughter…at least for a little bit?

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I would hate that.

I think the structure atm brings players together - are you part of any pvp communities?
Of not, do it!

I am part of pvp communities on both horde and alliance, and the conversation is good - the game is social because of it.

If I want a real 1 vs 1, I pick another game: Mortal Combat, Chess, tabletop war games (Bolt)… There is a lot to choose from.
What you seek, you must get in the Arena - be a gladiator, not a World PvP’er if you seek fair fights.

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The sad fact is, that poeple will always look for the easier way. Thinking that with some forced changes or rules we will create some miraculous system where everybody will be happy is utopia. There will always be people who will complain or who are just not satisfied. Unfortunately, now is your turn.

Have a nice day, i am out for now :wink:

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I give up…
Nothing i can say will make you believe me.
When i tell you “true world pvp’ers are solo since forever”…you are not believing me.

As a goodbye i will leave you the video that marked my childhood
Feel free to not watch it :frowning:
But the truth is…this is the good stuff
A true wine to be tasted

If you knew any good World PvP videos from your childhood…you would know how they all are.
They are all like this.

Goodby Moothilda :disappointed_relieved:

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There were not any pvp vids when I was a child, I am sorry to dissapoint you - I am from that gen that made those vid you watched :cry:

Here, have something I enjoyed

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One of the things I love about wpvp in wm is the variety in there. So many choices as to how you play wm. Different players can have different preferences, that’s ok. If you only want to take part in one or two aspects of wm, your choice.

But, true wpvp is anything goes pvp. Because that is the deliberate design of wm. Could be 1v1, 1v10, 1v40, 40v1, 20v1, etc. All tactics are valid in wm. Just have fun.

I’m all for more fun stuff being added in, as long as it’s not some rule that prevents me killing on sight. Or getting ganked on sight. That is as much a part of wpvp as ‘honour’ fights. Always has been.

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I never offered such rule.
I proposed a system, a Blood Coin reward structure where only the person who gets the killing blow gets the currency…to promote solo play in some way or form.

It would be a fun mini game.

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I think way to many ppl baited each other in this thread. :laughing:
But on it’s multiple topics (It’s long as always, so get comfy):

True World PvPer in WoW - is just someone who does WPvP in any form, and more than they play in any other mode in this game. That’s it. Just as WPvP itself is a thing without rules, regulations and limitations - there is no rules, regulations or limitations to be WPvPer - just do it more and enjoy it more, than any other part of the game.

Being a better WPvPer - that is a different question tho.

Morally better is very subjective argument since “Homosapiens vs Neanderthals” - we all live here rn just because they were ganking many vs one. And I truly believe they were better “WPvPers” because they were smarter.

Then we have gladiator pits, knights in shiny armors and duels with glove slaps, etc, non of which could be objectively judged about anything moral, only subjective opinions “who feels better about what”.

Then we have Wars, where soldiers fight against enemy soldiers, and moral and honor have different criteria.

So you see - it’s all very situational and subjective.

In a game - pick whatever makes you feel better and have more fun and go with it. Anything goes in WPvP. Here is the only parallel with RL - don’t expect others to follow same rules and limitations you’ve made for yourself, no matter how reasonable and “right” you think they are.

For example, I have a "rule" for myself (click)

From the first day I played WoW back in 2005 - I don’t gank lowbies. I just don’t see a point of doing that. For me there is no pleasure in it, and they don’t even drop anything. At least boars in Elvin Forest drop meat that I can sell on AH for lowbies to lvl their cooking.

When I’m a part of a gank group in current content, I don’t attack players of a lower lvl, and if I accidentally tab-target them in a heat of a battle and throw a spell - I switch immediately. The only exeption for this rule - is that if player in current content lvl-range attacks me first or helps max-lvl player I fight with - they are gone.

But that is just a rule I have for myself, for my own fun, and not to impose some kind of behavior on others, or expect it, or judge them. Well, make fun of them - yeah, probably. I don’t mind if someone attacks lower-lvl players, it’s kinda fun, even if I feel sorry for them.

With this, better at playing - that is something different.

All those old PvP videos are not about honor or dishonor - they are a show of skill, and sometimes comedy. That is what’s the most appealing in those videos - someone is so good that they can 1vN and win.

WPvP is very good to show this individual skill, because it gives possibilities to use whatever you want - professions, items, surrounding terrain, NPCs, mobs, etc. So better WPvPers are players who not only know how to play their class/spec, but also use whatever they can in their advantage and know how to do it.

To be or not to be in a group: - Who cares if it’s fun for you.
Having fun with fights of skill - go solo.
Having fun of wrecking everything - go in group.
Having fun in tactics and strategy of group vs group - go for it.
It’s not about honor or whatever until you make it so, for yourself.
Anything goes in WPvP.

For example, I do solo roams ~50% of the time (click)

But not because it’s honorable or “true” or anything like that.
Because I still play WoW like it’s a mmoRPG with a huge open world, and I want to have that unscripted sandbox adventure with PvP in it.

It’s a game, it’s for fun. But if you want to project some IRL stuff in it - it doesn’t mean that everybody else are doing the same.

And with this, we came to a main course - Promoting 5v1 and/or 1v5.

Promoting any group content in MMO is all good. It’s a MMO.

I like an idea about “Blood Coins”, but not exactly like posted.
Since these “Blood Coins”, in this idea, are used to buy something important for your character, and rewarded on KB - it means that:

  • If you can get them only when not in group, then it goes against MMO itself. Don’t like it at all, it’s not a single-player game. It’s a limitation for WPvP, and it’s not suppose to have any.

  • If when in group it cannot be traded with other players in the same group (like items in dungeons/raids can be traded with those who were in a party in a time of kill), then it’s also bad, because that awesome healer who is not really able to get KBs, but saved my life and that allowed me to land my KB - deserve this coin no less than I do.

That’s why I only like one part where “is a currency to buy PvP gear”.

Plus - we already have Conquest, and completely useless Honor points. I don’t think we need more.

But to make some sort of kill-count for WPvP,

  • and then give ability to cash out these kills for Conquest,
  • solo kills (when no other player attacked your target) give you more Conquest
  • while group kills give you less

and then Conquest as a currency, vendor…

This kind of approach I think would work to promote solo, without disruption of groups, as an essential part of MMO.

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Dear Coolgroove, thanks for you post
I would like just to point out some things.

“In World PvP anything goes” TRUE

Im not trying to irradicate group PvP in any way or form
Im trying to PROMOTE solo play via a blood coin system

Because in my eyes and in the eyes of any true world pvp’er, the “refined wine to be tasted properly” is to do WPvP solo.

This is the truth of every World PvP video ever created by mankind.

Now, your idea for Blood Coin would NOT fix the problem we are seeing.
The “slaughter”
The groups of five or ten or 40 killing single players and farming them like animals.
This is not…a true “wine to be tasted”
This
is
NOTHING
Its a slaughter

This is not true world pvp.
This is not the path my ancestors teached me. This is not true world pvp

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In your eyes!

In my eyes - every WPvP video (every good one) is a show of skill and knowledge of clever usage of items, abilities, combinations and surroundings. It’s not someking of WPvP bible written by a higher power to live by, unless you choose to do so yourself.

Yes, it is a slaughter, and it’s fun.

I didn’t say you’re trying to do it. I’ve pointed out details about your idea that going to influence this result. Because it’s not a good thing to give an ability to buy PvP gear only to solo players - it’s a HUGE limitation, and on something that is essential for MMO - groups.

If I don’t see a problem - does it count as a fix?

Nah, your ancestors were in

It was first true WPvP!

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Do you know how silly you sound when you say “true pvp is Homosapiens VS Neanderthals”

Are you cave man?
Am i a cave man?

Society saw evolution and you say “cave man” is true pvp?

Also, there is no need for Blood Coins to reward gear. It could all be cosmetics.

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Just don’t get offended by it. Haha

And from which part of evolution do you count your ancestors as your ancestors?

Still important, for many players even more important than gear.

But you’re still missing the point - you’re trying to solve something you see as a problem by limiting rewards - only for solo players in a MMO game.

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-Is killing a solo player with a full group of people a dishonorable action?
No.
It is WARcraft, an opposing faction pvper is a soldier and your enemy. Killing him with more forces is an advantage for you; not using this advantage but waiting for him to come with bigger force is foolishness.
A dishonorable action is to kill civilians, but in war mode there are no such, every player has agreed to be a soldier.

-Does a true world pvp’er plays solo?
Not necessarily, he can play solo or in groups, or both, whatever he likes or whatever is the situation.

To some other points in the discussion:

Not sure if you know this, but blood coins achievement has caused a lot of exploits to happen. People seem to not like this achievement and want to complete it faster. IMO it has flaws. It needs a killing blow in very large numbers (was it 2k kbs) which makes it too slow and annoying grind.
Besides, healers are excluded from completing this achiev (what a total nonsense from Blizzard). That’s why people exploited it or found ways around.

Which brings us to “healers in solo wpvp” - again absurd. They will be unkillable 1v1 (unless they are very bad), and such battles will be a waste of time for both sides.

Anyway - about solo wpvp. Recently I am doing exactly this, but actually there is no solo. There are groups in certain quest areas and I join them in killing without the need to join any party. They are not in party either, but we are one big raid without being in a raid. People kinda naturally gather together and move together. We humans have a herd mentality. Blizzard have put restrictions on wpvp quests to 5 man, well they have not achieved any change in the situation. There are still raids hunting, but without a raid.

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Good response :+1:

There are different wm player types.

  1. True wpvper
  2. RP wpvper
  3. Pve wpvper
  4. Pure pve’er

All of the above play their part in wm, except the pure pve’ers. It’s a rich mix. Different player goals helps keep things random and fun.

Less welcome in wm are the pure pve’ers. They are opportunists, and serve no purpose on a battlefield, except raid fodder! WAR mode. It’s good to target them, and get a % to turn off wm like Ion wants.

But yes, all wmers are effectively ‘soldiers’ like Ternezia says. It’s a faction war theme. True wpvpers don’t discriminate. 1v1 is awesome fun. But group killing all enemies on sight is also fun - it can help control the zone or subzone. Allowing your faction unhindered use of flight paths and world quests. That really ties into the wm theme.

Don’t like it? You are not a true wpvper. That’s ok, every player type has the right to enjoy wm in whatever way they choose :slight_smile:

General rant: The problem is, when the rp player type gets high and mighty, proclaiming their made up rp rules are the correct way, and anyone not playing by their made up rp rules, is somehow in the wrong. WM is deliberately designed as an anything goes no rules pvp game mode. Play it how you want: wpvp, rp wpvp with honour, pve wpvp… up to you. But so arrogant to expect all to play rp wpvp lol. Sure, I prefer true wpvp, but I don’t expect everyone to play my way. Play how you want.

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