Force a surrender how? Imbued by Bwonsamdi or not, the Alliance brought nothing to indicate that they would attempt to subdue Rastakhan. They could have used Jainas ice magic to trap him, they could have threatened him with burning the city down or used litterly any form of argument. But they didn’t.
The plan was simple; ask him to surrender. thats it. And they didn’t even consider a plan B, so they ended up just killing him, which from a strategic point of view was a bad idea.
And yes, the battle was an overall victory for the Alliance, but that was becasue they destroyed the Zandalari fleet. Which, as said so many times before this post, could have been done without the attack.
You have a near mythic god-king who has lived a long life due to the empowerment of his gods, who reigns over a kingdom which once spanned the entire planet. And you think he would have just thrown his hands up and surrendered? Lol.
How do you think armed police work……? Throw handcuffs at the target and ask them to put them on, politely? The Alliance came with a 20+ armed-to-the-teeth group just for Rastakhan and his guards. In the end it was 20 vs. 1(.5) and he decided to go down fighting trying to kill all of them. It’s not as if the Alliance were going to make him ‘disappear’ if they took him into custody.
Get off your high horse and stop trying to insult me.
And that’s my point? Where’s the surprise? Do you honestly think halfway through he’d have gone “yeah sorry lads, lets put the fisticuffs down i’ll be your prisoner”. Hell, when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans Constantine XI chose to die over being captured; he flat-out rejected Mehmed’s offer before the battle. Going into this battle, fully expecting Rastakhan to lie down and submit - with no alternative plan - was dumb.
It’s enabled Talanji (a more proactive character) to take the throne, who now has a bone to pick with the Alliance.
I don’t think they were arguing anything on that. They’re arguing in that it was an expectation to begin with.
Rastakhan - like the Night Elves of Teldrassil - was not going to look at being subjugated and discouraged so easily. Is it a matter of pride? maybe, but they are still individuals with a certain mindset that did not - unsurprisingly - lead them to bending over and further taking it from behind from their aggressors.
I’ve still yet to see this strategy work wonders in-game.
Your points are nonsensical and attempt to portray the encounter as the Alliance going in with the sole intention of having Rastakhan killed. This is supported by no evidence at all, and in fact the opposite happens with a request for surrender after having surrounded the man and cut down his guards.
Being turned into an arrow/sword/spell pincushion tends to change people’s minds. Not the first raid boss either that’s been taken -alive- by the end of the fight, eg: Cenarius and Garrosh. Rastakhan gave them no choice in the matter practically being a mini-loa-of-death at this point. He was going out of control by the last bit of the fight and regretted even having the power given to him.
See, there is a flaw in that logic. Zul and Talanji both allowed themselves to be taken prisoner.
Half the Golden Fleet isn’t coming back, no matter how much people may try to spin it. And the Horde’s defeat is ‘a matter of weeks’, confirmed by even Nathanos himself.
You’ve misread everything I wrote or not really read all of it. The point of my post is Rastakhan wouldn’t be subdued and expecting him to be subdued or that he would end up captured is dumb; there was no guarantee.
I like your argument. And it’s agreeable. But it’s not how the Alliance did it.
Let me try again.
The Alliance fully expected something from a character they did not bother learning about nor consider very heavily. If the expectation was to force him to surrender and nothing else in an alternative, then they saw Rastakhan as too soft and/or not the ruler he is/was.
This is as much a mortal flaw in logic as Sylvannas expecting to break the Night Elves and the Alliance by burning their home turf.
I give up on you. We’re getting nowhere. Don’t know if it’s malicious, obstructionist or just agreeing to disagree.
Sylvanas’ original plan of holding Teldrassil hostage had strong merit and would likely have gotten her the strategic room she wanted, but her hissy fit at the end of the WoT is what killed the plan.
So what…they came with a small army, blew up half the Golden Fleet in about 6 seconds, stormed their way through the city, and went 20-1(.5) and this is insufficient force to beat him to the ground in the event of a fight? (Rastakhan saw all of this from his perch above the city).
I mean, have we had any precedent of a single person being so heavily empowered by Bwonsamdi? If not, then there is no chance that Rastakhan on his own could go 20-1 against ‘the heroes’ and come out on top. As it stands, in the fight we barely come out alive due to all the lethal stuff he throws at you. I can guarantee you that even the strongest person in the world cannot go 20-1 against typical soldiers. It ain’t happening. The logic of beating him to the ground in the event of a refusal, was sound based on what they could have realistically known.
Blizzard tried to be clever with their multiple narratives, and now we can’t even say anything useful about what actually happened with Rastakhan and Genn.
Malfurion - and later Tyrande saw how the Horde steamrolled through Ashenvale and then into Darkshore, toppling their ‘wall of wisps’ strategy and still did not give up the fight.
When they saw their beloved home tree get destroyed and ripped apart, they still refused to give up Darkshore altogether and would rather die trying.
Why exactly can’t this logic be applied to Rastakhan? Yes he saw his entire city being shattered with the Golden Armada smouldering in the background. But suddenly, when he refuses to back down from demands, he’s the illogical one?
What’s said is irrelevant. Either way both dialogue options demand Rastakhan to surrender - which from what we know of his character - he would never do. I don’t know if you’re purposefully obtuse but my point is this:
Expecting Rastakhan to surrender was naive at best.
Or are you going to continue to try and spin this into something that it isn’t?
