What went wrong with wow

hi everyone.

my topic here is my feedback about everything for me is wrong with wow.
you can agree or disagree i don’t care!

let’s first start with class design.
why remake them every expansion, can you for the next 2 expansion tweaking class and unwanted talent. not a complet rework but looking mainly at talent and flow of each spec and adjusting the dmg.

reward structure, make gear revelant and not replacing them right after aquire them.
the proc system i hate it, you created it for helping people surpass a difficulty and not making them improving and getting better.
what we have now is more unskilled player running in gear quality they should have not be able to aquire.

stop making system that will not hold next expansion, wq and m+ are great has a system because no matter how much expansion we are those system will still be there.

fix the leveling process, we are not supose use warmode for leveling only if we love pvp at low level. we should not use a feature for only the bonus, like more rep or resource, we should use warmode because we love pvp.
stop making me the heroes, all i want is band together with others random and cracking murloc skull,living a journey and live another day. i don’t want to be the only savior.

stop bringing everything at the level snorefest,zergfest.
remove the buff in the lfd and lfr system.
stop creating catch up mecanism, having some catch up is good too much is bad.
force people to use their brain.
make them want to improve and not showering them in a dream of wonder, make them work for it, make them want to work for it, not just giving them what they want.

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Incoming people telling you how gear doesn’t matter and calling you an elitist.

(Gear very much matters, it’s what seperates WoW from rest of MMORPGs)

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Why is that bad though? Why is it a bad thing that people can have a small chance of getting better equipment by doing content they can manage? It is not like a heroic raider will get mythic level equipment only because they are a bit lucky with titanforging for example.

This also works into this:

I believe a majority either just hit their limit, have no method of improving or simply want to enjoy and escape the real life for an hour or two. Why should I work the whole day to improve myself in my job and then work another couple of hours in the game (unless I want to)?

I am totally with you that there should be some content that is not reachable for this people but the funny thing is: There already is that content. There already is that way to distinguish yourself if you are able to and willing to.

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It’s not small chance, it’s 100% chance of 400 item every week or so, and can warforge/titanforge. What seperates WoW from other MMORPGs is gear progression, it’s the bread and butter of WoW, and the lack of it is what’s suffocating the game. If you look at other aspects, lot of other MMORPGs trump WoW.

Well, if you are able to do the +10 or +8 you need for that item you kind of earned it right? I mean a player who did that already played the content necessary to achieve this, correct?

Again: Why is it so bad that players can do gear progression on a slower pace than other players but even though do gear progression?

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Talking about warfront, warfront boss, weekly quests and emissaries.

This character hit 120 on Monday evening, it’s got 400 Jaina trinket, 400 belt from warfront, 385 titanforged ring, and about to get another 400 from warfront boss.

Not to mention free 385 gear from kill 25 hordes, got a nice fat azerite chest there.

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You have no imagination :expressionless:

Whenever I am called hero, I press my ‘Champion Stance’ and stand for 5 minutes so everyone can see how awesome I am :man_dancing:

Because I am! :v:

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Mentioned points are too weak and badly written.

Nevertheless they are an indication that even the slowest part of the community starts noticing that something went wrong.

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Okay, great. So my question remains: Why is that a problem from your perspective?

383 is more of a basic itemlevel at this point in the expansion and you will not reach 400 or higher within the next two weeks unless you are lucky with the slots (and/or you play a lot) either.

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That’s the whole problem.

Mythic5 or so is 385
Normal raid is 385.

This whole thing invalides both, why bother with that content?

This game isn’t built on people that do heroic and mythic content, there’s lot that are on normal level, but they have no need for improving themselves and doing that content, when they can get free gear. Which is why you see raiderio and stuff like that, people don’t get incentive to improve, but they get free gear, then they wonder why they don’t get invited, or why they get kicked for doing something wrong when it’s expected of them to know basics.

We get all the wrong incentives, feeding free loot is not good incentive, making people improve themselves to get it is. It’s what kept WoW alive, lack of that is what bores people.

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Yes, it does. No, it doesnt.

What went wrong?
Constant change to classes I agree, developing new stuff for classes isnt bad, but remaking them is - I loved old survival hunter in BC, but dont like hunters now.
Titanforging? Nah, its all random and its just a part of it, its neither good nor bad, but random sockets and 3rd stats are because they can throw of design.

Otherwise, its fine dungeon and lorewise. PVP side is a whole different game that just happens to have the same name and same sub as WoW.

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Okay, I had to read that a couple of times… so your main points are:

  1. Players should do normal raids to improve
  2. Player who are able to successfully play mythic+5 are less capable because normal raiding is harder to do
  3. Players can get more loot from other sources (like warfronts and pvp) and therefore can just go there and do not need to improve
  4. There is no indicator for players on a certain equipment level why they are not good enough for content which will improve their equipment

Did I summarize this correctly?

Picture this, you’re in a guild, you’re raiding normal Dazar’alor, you manage to kill Mekkatorque and he drops you some cool boots, but you already got 400 boots from warfront. Then you finally kill Jaina and she drops an azerite piece, but you got better one from emissary. See where I’m going with this? Game is basically skipping first part, it’s like playing Pokemon and starting with level 10-15 Pokemon.

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sorry if badly written or explain, english not my main language, and french forum are useless.

Salut! Ca vas bien? :slight_smile:

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Well, first of all, plenty of specs remained roughly the same. Secondly, only adjusting the damage and a slight rework in the talents won’t keep the majority of the players attached to a spec (I think), esp not if you don’t change anything significantly over many many years.

I don’t say the current changes are great, far from. But changes are sometimes needed. Perhaps different changes would have been better though.

the gear carry you to a certain point, skill bring you to a certain point.
having the gear and the skill bring you far into the games.

the games was about the journey, now the games is about afk and pinata loot for free 385-400 gear. the player gap skill are starting to be more then a canyon now.

They unravelled the ravelling and it became a fractured world. They don’t even know what is wrong cus the muddle is so removed from the world it should be and or was. The player base has moved on and now we have the elitest super WoW brigade mouthing off as if they owned the game. And so what is wrong. Well. The game and its players lost touch with the essence of what it was to be just starting in this game. A player today who picks up this game will be faced with modest return for his her efforts and the first time they try to do anything they will hit the brick wall that is the elitest, end gaming, pointy hatted, motor bike one shotters that in short ruined this game.

The same elitest group that wanted scaling and wanted no flying that gave away the two most valuable assets a normal player had for levelling quickly in the game. I am not talking about hardened players I am talking about that new blood that we so dearly need to stifle the mouthy elitest players that now dominate this game. Sad but hey.

Fortunately the new breed of player will experience this game and realise the only way to win is to adopt a new breed of stance. They will adopt the same self centred arrogant attitude of the motorbiking one shotters and speed to end game never really ever appreciating what the game is or what it really is about. A more ‘here today, gone tomorrow’ speed fiend that just wants and not wanting to give.

So to get a game that resembles anything like the giant it was the game designers would need to revert their game and to give back some if not all of the original values. Sadly not gonna happen, and why… its a different world we now have. Different game, different designers, different community and they all sense what it was that World of Warcraft was… but none actually truly understand what the game was really about. They have become so detached from the real game.

And so you cannot unravel the ravellings. It is not possible. Those with the true Warcraft heart that lived this game and created it have long since gone. There are those still screaming out for a return to the glory days. Sadly it will not happen so I’d give up trying. You can sense the matters that are important to players by reading this thread. It is the internet self proclaiming elitest self important and self validating bunch of players that populate any forum and any game and any subject now. Everyone is important, and everyone feels their voice is louder than any other. You can visit any forum based around any subject and experience the same.

The point is that once in a day gone by it was the design team and their idea that shone and it was humble players that just played the game. But played it from a point of almost ignorant bliss. They were subservient to it and not tother way round. Now we have players and streamers and the like dictating what they want, what is wrong and what they deserve or demand. The makers have become corporate giants worried about stocks and markets. The game is so large and complex it has to be diluted and degraded to make it work in a hostile gaming player world of super experienced and elitest users. The returns on sales have to meet market expectations and so the ravellings become more revelled and those disheartened either give up or just put up with it.

Every now and then somebody comes here and asks what went wrong. Immediately we get the usual response from those that believe they own the game telling you all kinds of things as to what went wrong. What actually went wrong is that the true makers of the game, with the dream who once had only their own will and determination to give us Warcraft… moved on. As did those that played this game and made it great. It was giant because of belief. Belief of the developer and belief by the player. There was one goal and that was to give us World of Warcraft.

So sorry you can’t unravel the ravellings by simply changing a gear system or pandering to the so called community who grow ever more remote from that humble player just setting out in the game. Somewhere along the way the game lost what it was truly about. It ejected so much of the real content in favour in a bid to sustain values that in truth were never the core values of the game. And so what we have is not Warcraft but a mangled, twisted mish mash that everyone and anyone believes they have ownership of.

It would need a new World of Warcraft driven by dedicated and deserving creators unshackled by the player base and corporate owners to make this game great again. It happens with most things and sadly this is no different. In time more will come to realise you can’t live in the past you have to deal with today. This game is either a product of today or a memory of its past. Its sad but a truth so I would give up trying to work out what went wrong and focus on what you have while you have it. Just have fun with it. Make it work and stop overthinking things.

Final point… the world we have today has gone bonkers cus everyone thinks they are important and have a voice. It is more noticable today as the world suffers states of manic confusion as pressures from the ‘community’ are so able at the click of a telephone button to make comment. Voices that are whispers become bellowing storms and yet those that talk are annonymous and without face. We have become so vocal about everything and I guess those that make the decisions don’t truly know who to listen to. Its a shame, cus it wasn’t like that when Warcraft was created. The actual creators were not driven by anything other than their own imagination. If I were them now I would ditch the phones, close access to the forums, lose the corporate pressure and try to employ new developers and designers that actually want to make interesting gameplay. They should focus on what it is to be a new player and start from the dragon up.

For me I love the game… I also love the forums and the nonsense that folk spout. Like this post. Who cares. I do.

Sorry for the spelling… I really am crap at spelling… er and Warcraft but hey.

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what maked wow great was the journey, not the speed leveling and gearing process we have now. i heard alot of people claiming the end games is the real games, i say no, the journey to reach the end games is the real games.

you can call me elitism if you like but having quality of life change are not always good some are pretty negative then positive.
not because its look good on paper does mean its good for the games.

when they started to speed the gearing process and how easy it was, the games started to lose its soul. quicker we are gearing quicker we are consuming content.

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I agree with the op. The game changed so much it’s now just a distant cousin of what it used to be.

And this is not what hooked me.

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