What would a new Night Elven Capital look like?

I don’t see any night elf save druids being interested in that.

If Cenarians were to be playable or they created a tree elf sub race for them, then that would work for that.

The night elf traditional buildings in Suramar , Zin’azshari, Temple of Elune and the ruins are much nicer, much more and they are more fitting.

Druid culture buildings in Val’sharah and revamped Darkshore also nicer and perfect for woodland homes for the small communities and druidic ones. They don’t fit the mage ones or the larger cities.

My ideal is to have 2 night elf kingdoms, one for the alliance in Kalimdor and one for the horde in the broken isles, especially so the nightborne don’t live as Blood elf sidekicks or in our shadow but are there own expression of the side of the kaldorei they were meant to represent.

For all the purists who disagree, that’s fine, the 2 night elf groups don’t have to hate each other.

Alliance night elves based in Kalimdor, their druids centred in Hyjal and Ashenvale, their priests in Moonglade, Felwood and Darkshore, their Highborne and arcane users in Feralas and Desolace.

Hyjal has no cities, but is restored, rich barrow dens, and tree homes similar to Val’sharah, a town like shal’anir on Nordrassils steps,

Moonglade has a new temple of Elune built there, with a few marble building a like you see in Meradil Suramar.

Eldre’thalas is the full on city, and the arcane group also rebuild the ruins there and in Desolace, which has a lot of country Azsuna style.

There is mixture in all these places, but not like you would expect, the communities don’t mix or interact with one another much, a product of millennia of isolation. E.g. Darkshore will have highborne towns and the forested area in the south, but the druid types avoid the cities, and so while the city types visit the forest, they don’t mix business or bother with the druid types. The priests who dominate this zone, have a temple built there, and spend most of their time there ministering to Elune.

The zones are distinctly related to the Orders (I,e
Priesthood, highborne or druid) and this is seen clearly by how much infrastructure you have of that order you have. Lots of forests means druids dominate, lots of cities and towns means highborne order dominate, Temple and military focus means Order of Elune

E.g., Desolace has a great temple, but lots of fixed cities and towns, as does Feralas, a small forest in Desolace if it can even be called that, and the forest in Feralas is dominated by infrastructure.

So whiles every zone has a community of every group or order, usually one dominates the scape of the zone .

Nightborne
Broken isle nightborne and the Night elves there are all allied together and horde.

But night elves work differently, the orders dominate behaviour and interaction and are where the dividing line occurs rather than the factions.

Nightborne druidism is born thanks to Farodin and the Val’sharah druids, Val’sharah being their druidic centre.

Farondis, their highborne in Azsuna etc
Suramar is not exclusively nightborne either, other night elves around the isles long separated also make it home, it was their capital too, and neither nightborne nor night elf forget it was those who were outside that won the legion war and this possible for the city to have remained. Farodin, Lothrius, Farondis all join Thalyssra in the city as leaders of the Nightborne realm.

While as horde you can’t play the kaldorei model, only the shal’dorei, similar to how alliance cant play the high elf model, only the void elf one.

The Orders are united across the night elves in both Alliance and Horde factions, druids of Val’sharah broken isles aren’t enemies of the Darnassian druids just cos they now have nightborne and are horde - think of it like Tauren and night elves from classic, their druids don’t fight each other, nor did you see shal’dorei attack the night elves in the War of Thorns. They are one order, dedicated to nature and this is their first duty. Same with the mage and priest orders.

To this effect, the priesthood main temple is restored at The broken shore or Thal’dranath, Tyrande is often there or in Moonglade, and is often seen visiting the Suramar too on priest business, new nightborne acolytes encouraged by the priestesses who moved from Val’sharah to Suramar during the war swell their ranks.

The wardens still maintain their vigil on the isles as their own unit, they are neutral faction and open their doors to shal’dorei women form the Sisterhood once more.

The highborne orders are also connected. Eldre’thalas, a restored Nar’thalas commonly share and visit each other.

The thing is most of these night elves are neutral sort of similar to the Cenarion Circle, some I individuals favour the horde or alliance, but this is more a Darnssian thing for alliance and a nightborne thing for horde.

While the druids are tight with each other, this doesn’t mean Kalimdor alliance druids would be friendly to broken isles mages or priests, nor broken isle druids friendly to Kalimdor highborne.

Outside their orders they aren’t at war or hate or enemies, they just have nothing to do with each other and remember that that lot are friends with people their friends don’t like.

However they don’t do the kinda hostility horde and alliance do with each other or blood elves and night elves either, they horde and alliance is second place to their Orders (I.e. 2nd place to Elune or the arcane or nature if they are priests, mages or druids)

This is how I would want it done . Something different to the blood & high/void elf dynamic, interesting, not different for the sake of being different, but somethimg that fits the dynamic of the night elves. They are generally more extreme into whatever their area of focus is, whether Elune, or the arcane, or nature, the lore shows us the night elves in those 3 areas get super dedicated and prolific at thi, it’s one of their racial attributes, the more fanatical elves, less mellow or tolerant than humans or slightly more humanized Thlassians. More exclusive. Therefore it fits that they woukd find more commonality across their orders, rather than the faction they are aligned with.

They are also enigmatic, so this is bkind to puzzle those who haven’t picked up on this aspect of them, which will be ,pat people and which is also fine.

It was joking post obviously- shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Maybe I should’ve add comment about new nelven fighting style - that they drink potent mixture that makes them bounce on their behinds in impressive speed and range.

1 Like

Why would the night elves need a “new” capital when their Eternal Vigil largest city is still active and a bustling hub?

It’s defendable, close to the true World Tree, it’s a center of learning, it has it’s ancient allies close by.

It looks something like this, actually:
h ttps://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/c/c7/Nighthaven.jpg?version=5caf9dcaa672e588c17ba1a7e50a1c41

Eternal vigil? Whats that?

Think he meant Long Vigil - Period between War of the Ancients and Third War.

If only you read what I said in this thread ;-;

Also as stated above, its the Long Vigil :wink:

No, I never read the nonsense you write, elf supremacist.

And yes, thanks for for the correcting, I meant Long Vigil.

Wow, why so angry?

1 Like

The night elves had no city or gathering hub during the long vigil. Civilization was on pause - duty and vigil supreme. Druids slept in barrow dens for millennia in the Emerald dream (no time for family making - only duty, or roamed the wilds, the Order of Elune, were constantly patrolling around the realm, preventing Satyrs and anyone from finding the big secret well of power that was the only thing they knew could bring back the Legion.

Each were dedicated in their separate tasks and duties, only coming together for great crisis like the Satyr wars or the War of the Shifting Sands.

They were in thorough isolation, no time for civilization, cities, families nor life as normal in the previous age, it was duty watch mode, war mode. Everything on pause. As such only the village in Moonglade was any sort of abode.

They return to civilization and out of isolation after wc3, Darnassus is the first city built in 10,000 years for that group, and shortly after arcane usage returns and the ban on highborne lifted.

What is this bustling hub you speak of?

Lets see; they had a capital city of Nigthaven in the Moonglade of the sacred Mount Hyjal.
They also had the city of Astranaar, based within the sacred forests of Ashenvale, and which was a rather large Kaldorei settlement. And lets not forget Auberdine in Darkshore!

So yes, they had cities and villages and “gathering hubs”.

Also, even during the Long Vigil the different aspects of the Kaldorei worked together. Even during events of Stormrage we have a Moon-Priestessess taking care of Archdruid Malfurion Stormrage body while his spirit was stuck in the Emerald Dream.

Sentinels and Moon-Priestessess often worked together tirelessly and even Druids joined them in their tasks and viceversa.

2 Likes

I have always viewd the night elves of warcraft 3 as very independent, indiviual people…reclusive, because much of their existence in the last 10,00 years has been work and watch

Erm, since when? Nighthaven is the one I was referring to and was described as a village serving as the HQ for the high priestess.

I always thought Astranaar and Aunerdine were all recent additions when the night elves move out of isolation to Teldrassil. Can you tell me where it was mentioned that they were around? None of the wc3 or official wow encyclopedia mentions them as older, and it made sense to me given the nature of their duty and how it was described.

Unusual yes, but I never forget that Elves aren’t human, and as such you can expect an group of beings like that to be rather unusual to us.

Maybe I missed something somewhere…?

During the long vigil they only worked together in crisis, they were not hand in hand buddies, druids were focused on nature purely…it is not the calling of the Order of Elune, the priests and their militia wing were the enforces of the long vigil, fighting the corruption of the satyrs and anyone who would seek to call the legion or utilise the well to do something that would attract them.

The quests specifically mention this, and it fits with the setting they provide for the night elves.

Either I am wrong or you are wrong unless you can come up with lore and an explanation that explains both.

We miss things sometimes. Bare in mind the RPG books are not canon. The druids in Feralas tell you explicitly their orders do not work together. You are shown a druidic order focused wholly on nature and a priest with a totally different focus.

Druids sleeping in barrow dens have no priests with them, other druids watch over them, the sentinel and priest patrols of the long vigil have no druids with them, the women are always together.

After the long vigil ends, it changes. A lot changes, they mix more, but not often, they kick start civilization, arcane also returns and they continue to evolve.

But this is what I knew, you may be privacy to more info, if so please share source so I may update my views

You heard it here folks.

The night elves didn’t have villages, homes, towns or family only duty.

Agriculture? What’s that?
Smithing new weapons? Why?
Civilians? Don’t exist anymore.
Need glaive throwers or bows? Too bad.
Tending to nature? Only sleeping druids!

4 Likes

Those seemingly perfectly carved statues you see littered around a few areas of ruined Elf civilizations?

Just Night Elves that did their duty a little too much.

3 Likes

Or maybe instead of insisting on this strawman that people just want night elves to live in trees with no architecture at all, you could have a look at the architecture that forms the core of the night elf identity, from the very beginning.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/images/nightelf/buildings/expansion-nightelf-techtree.gif

This is the architecture that most of us associate with night elves and yes, this includes the buildings used by the sentinels during the Long Vigil. This is what most people associate with the night elves and what people want night elf towns to look like.

If you wish, you can demand half a dozen different aesthetics at once, taken from every era of night elf civilisation over a period of over ten thousand years, even the eras that they have left behind and look back on with shame and have nothing in common with today.

But the rest of us just want night elven stuff look the same way that it always has, since the inception of the race. Don’t try to misconstrue that, please.

4 Likes

It doesn’t matter if that was the first types of buildings shown with night elves in WC3,

  1. Should we go to every race and group in warcraft and use the first type of buidlings used? Yes, lets start with SIlvermoon, and revert it back to the buildings shown in WC3, oh and lets not ever progress, upgrade or do new refined styles that better capture the vision of the races we have designed in wow, because this is what we first put out and therefore should ignore all context of it.
  2. Should we ignore their opening lore that tells us they had far more than what we see them have in WC3 - they’ve shruken from spanning the globe to guarding Hyjal and walling off people from getting close by protecting Ashenvale (what becomes Felwood after WC3, and Moonglade). Do we ignore all their history? bear in mind the Long vigil era we meet them in, ends in WC3.
  3. So your story starts at a period where most of your stuff is destroyed and you can’t use the means to rebuild it nor lose the time until the end of that chapter because of this massive massive threat. So once the reason for your last 10,000 years mode of existence has ended, you are telling me, that your race should just stay in that initial state that their condition and circumstance forced upon them.

The night elf story doesn’t even have them devolve, or forget their past or identitiy, or suddenly turn into wood elves or forest elves, no it has them in that long vigil state for fixed reason and task. whether it’s 100 years or 100,000 … do you think once the task is done tehy 'd still continue in isolation, with no civilization, with no magic and not rebuilding families when the only reason to stop their original lives for so logn is gone? ofc not. Should we there just not bother to progress or show more of them.

To lock the night elves into that sttate also, when the story was clear from the start, that was a stage of their existence that had a a lot of history already behind it… (it was the end of the long vigil era), and they had a fully fledged civilziation architecture that was in ruins which the story also tells the long vigil was not the era ofr rebuilding. The night elves are shown not at their inception or their beginnings of greatness, but because they are an ancient race they are shown quite far along in their existence. Wc3 is not the start of the night elves, but it is A START. A start that ends teh long vigil…and like all major races in wow, it’s the story of the start of something significant and great… The night elves were great 10,000 years ago, then for the last 10,000 years, they haven’t been, tey’ve been in watch-mode, bound to a valuable and special mission.

So when the long vigil ends, adn the arcane returns, if youa re going to give night elves civilization, you are not going to give them long vigil stuff for cities. For small villages and forest huts, yes, but for cities you would restore the era they did the best architecture.

Just like the draenei, you aren’t going to give them Exodar spaceship hub parts of the crash landing as a permanent new style, nor do you give humans the Goldshire/Redridge/Westfall type huts and homes as their city architecture.

No you change it up. To deny night elves the archiceture you designed for them for cities, and you’ve already given in Suramar, Zin’Azshari, Eldre’thalas - it smacks of crap.

It’s one thing for a forest outpost to look like the new Feathermoon Stronghold in Feralas, it’s an enitrely different thing to make a New Suramar or New Zin’Azshari look like that.

Like most races, you give one type of architecture for simple small scale stuff like Goldshire/Auberdine/Lake Town/Astrannar - and you give an entirely different thing for the likes of Stormwind/Lordaeron/Stromgarde … Suramar/Darnssus/Zin’Azshari/Eldre’thalas.

We’ve had night elf civilziation buildings in the form of ruins to show us the level of excellence and sophistication – majesty they reached and how terrible the first invasion was. And we are shown they are quite capable of building that sort of thing again, if Daranssus is anything to go by… furthermore they bring back highborne, nightborne, arcane users and ancient trees with memories of everything they’ve encoutnered for all the time of the pre-sundering era - they can rebuild night elf architecutre.

why change it anyway? what is wrong with Suramar? or Zin’Azshari or Eldre’thalas - they’re gorgeous !! And people love them, why give night elves something different when that is their architecture for cities?

If you’re going to give night elves a city, you give it gorgeous architecture, like Suramar, or Zin’Azshari - you don’t give it crap or give it wooden stuff that is a druid thing - that’s great for druid forest communities, but not for every night elf overall. it’s like saying Stormwind should have building s like you have in Goldshire or REdridge.

We have seen how gorgeous night elven stuff can be, why would we just want one type but not the other? Want the wooden stuff but not the marble stuff. hey everyone, night elves lived in a wooden village for 10k years, therefore let all of night elf architecutre and civilization be wooden building. Forget the gorgeous beauitful temples they can erect, or the breathtaking cities they can build - oh no, night elves won’t want to do that, because THEY ARE ALL DRUIDS, and LOVE TREES, and LIVE IN TREES, therefore trees lol. should be all there is to them.

The Horde shall give the Alliance’s Kaldorei access to living in Suramar, in exchange for a neutral zone patrolled by both the Horde and Alliance. There are countless houses emptied by the long war against the Legion. Better to use them for those who need them, displaced citizens.

2 Likes

But the majority of buildings in Stormwind City and in every -shire town share the same aesthetic already. Which is also the aesthetic used by the Warcraft 3 Alliance structures, interestingly enough.

4 Likes

And Lordaeron? Silvermoon? Orgrimmar? Warsong hold? - by your reasoning no architecturural style should upgrade and no race can diversify or have more than one. Yet clearly this is done in the cross over from WC3, to WoW, and gets upgraded as wow gets upgrades too.

The same night elf buildings are also high elf lodges too. So all high elf buildings should be that architecture?

The point was that the WC3 stuff is not the be all of the night elves, not the start nor the end.

That architecture should exist, in the relevant areas…when night elves are carrying out forest compaigns or mobile homes, not when they are buildnig cities and temples… you use the best stuff you’ve designed for that race - its own stuff - Suramar, Zin’Azshari, Eldre’thalas. Temples get CoEN, Temple of Elune, and as you get better tech to draw, you upgrade the style make it better.

You don’t say… oh. they had this in WC3, therefore this is what they should have everywhere and for everything, especially when the story of the long vigil gives you a reason why they only have that in that period, and that long vigil era is ended.

i’ll be frank Taxania, with architecture like Suramar, the temple of the Moon, CoEN, Zin’Azshari out there, that is drop dead gorgeous, i’d be heavily disappointed if a night elf city did not reflect that level of beauty for the alliance group and only existed for the horde night elf group.

Tree homes are all well and good, but they are part of the druidic section and style of the nigthe lves, and its nice that htey have a wooden style too. This should be present in heavily forested areas like Val’sharah, Ashenvale etc, but it should not be the only type for ALL night elf forest, and neither shoudl the exquisite marble buildings be the only type for al lnight elf cities.

I wooden town or city like sahla’anir could ahve been an interesting variation, but then one would always welcome a Suramar /zin’Azshari, CoEN, Temple of Elune marble type city too. As well as one would like some towns to be marble not wooden . reflecting the different kaldorei cultures… the highborne mage/ priest culture is the marble stuff, the druid one the wooden stuff, and both have cities and villages.

The joint campaigns for guerrilla warfare would use the wooden ones in WC3, b/c they are mobile. it makes sense. but not as a permanent abode.

Lets be honest, it really is a bit silly for night elves to be fighting themselves, after finally being reunited after 10k years of separation and having most of their civilziation destroyed by the legion, which is now destroyed, to have them consumed by horde and alliance conflict to the extent they would rather kill each other than forge a future together is a bit silly.

i can easily see a situation where night elves and nightborne live together side by side, one having allies in the alliance, one having aliles in the horde, but those are secondary to them because they 've lived much longer and besides they are fixated on their devotions… mage highborne types are besotted over the arcane, priests types besotted over Elune, and druid types besotted over nature, these take number 1 precedence over anything else for them for most of the time except when the big threats threten destruction, then they put that threat as their primary focus and use their knoweldge and powers to oppose it.

1 Like