until we get a talent calculator to see how they are going to work with shared and spec talents we cant really say much.
mayb we will have even less freedom as some powers might be much better for unholy than they are for frost DKs, thus locking you in that path with little variance.
we can only wait and see
Unlimited load-outs that I can switch to on the fly. And some talents that essentially allow shaman to tank again.
Deep Freeze
Impact
Improved Counterspell
Frostjaw
Presence of Mind (the OG one)
Iâm not really terribly concerned about individual abilities as such, but there is one thing I want above all else:
Theyâve got to reign in the cooldowns. Both offensive and defensive. Itâs just way, way over the top; damage can be quite low for a while and then suddenly it spikes up to extreme levels, and the new set bonuses made it even worse. People are being stunlocked all the time, and indeed the problem is so great very, VERY large parts of the PvP population has rerolled to Orc.
If theyâre not going to fix that very little matters to me honestly. I donât have any problem with the structure of the talent trees, so thereâs that.
I want my hearstrike back⌠cleave with bloodboil feels cheep. Or generally an option to play blood als dps spec and frost as tank spec. (DK)
Ranged SV skills: black arrow and explo shot; kobra shot as spender for SV instead of raptor strike. (Hunter)
Chakra system for priests: âstancesâ to boost your Aoe heal, single target heal or dps. Oh, and mind spike as an option to play shadow without DoTs. (Priest)
Yes, there is some passive / talent I would like to return.
The Warriorâs Stance and the Paldinâs Seal.
What little I have tried TBC, I liked the mechanics. Especially that of the tank warrior who had to change Stance to tank well 
These mechanics were at the heart of this game and I wish they would return. Let the kids run away from three buttons and easy dps / damage.
Iâd like there to be different playstyles (viable enough to not force builds outside of Mythic Raids or High Keys).
I remember back in MOP Iâd read the Shaman forums and Icy Veins etc. and there were discussions around a Haste Build or a Mastery Build (of course Reforging helped with this too) where you would pick one set of telents and stack Haste or another set of talents and stack Mastery. It depended on how you prefered to play the game, how many buttons you liked to press on which one you choose.
I want to see choices where I decide between a dual wielder with Haste and faster talents or a 2 hander, stacking crit with either a passive or a slower talent.
For this to be a thing we need more control over our gear, back then we used reforging, gems, enchants etc. to adapt our gear. Now we make do with whatever gear we can get.
Yeah but SR reflecting only the first spell that reaches you was fine back in tbc when people didnât actually spam tons of spells on you at once.
Nowadays thereâs way too much going on, multiple spells hitting you at the same time. Weapon procs too, and so forth.
We need spell reflect to reflect it all for its entire duration, itâs way too difficult to reliably reflect what you want nowadays.
Hell yeah brother!
disagree, the fact that we âneedâ 3 second blanket âyou canât do anything to meâ buttons is just a sign of degenerate game design. Grounding totem should for example also just absorb 1 spell instead of all- But thatâs just the tip of the iceberg.
Bottom line is that abilities that promote the kind of play where theres:
Should be nerfed or removed.
Holy Radiance
Life Tap
Fel Flame
Then remove Paladinâs Bubble, Paladinâs BoP, Warlockâs reflect, Mageâs Iceblocks, Hunterâs Turtle shell, Priestâs Fade, Death Knightâs anti magic shell, Rogueâs Cloak of ShadowsâŚ
âŚyou see where this is going, donât you?
Then remove all of the above.
Itâs only 3 seconds which seems to work just fine during BFA when it was just a PvP talent.
The change came when it became baseline and usable in PvE.
It was the only counter I had for druids 12 second duration Thorns that would melt me if I tried to damage them while they took reduced damage in bear form while healing with their hots and other survival abilities at the same time.
Doesnât need to be removed, but simply be reverted to reduce your damage by 50% when bubbled.
BoP needs to make you unable to do melee attacks again too.
If i remember correct, it used to reflect only x spells ( fire and shadow). If its that way still, then its fine. Also, unlike the other reflects, it is dispellable.
Not a problem either. Just like deterrance before, it makes you unable to attack for the duration and doesnât remove dots from you. It also has a fairly long cooldown.
It depends, I could see its removal be justifiable if priest got some of its mobility back- But even if it did, you can still kick the priest during fade, and it is removed the moment he attacks. Now, if it made you immune for 5 seconds and made you also immune to interrupts, then thatâd be different.
It doesnât need to be removed, but it definitely needs to have all the conduit + legendary bonuses taken away. It should just last the flat 4 to 6 seconds, as it used to be, and should have a fairly large but still destroyable pool.
No, it has a very long cooldown vs what it does. Donât get me wrong, it is mega powerful, but rogue has had it since BC. Itâs not a problem.
Just like with AMS, Iâd just remove any and all modifiers to it. It shouldnt clear other than magical dots on you, etc.
I do, but I think you have the wrong idea.
An ability existing itself is not a problem. But if that ability is too rewarding to use, then it quickly becomes a problem.
Take mortal strike for example. If mortal strike had the effect of sharpen blade on it baseline, itâd be overtuned. But the ability on its own is fine.
Same with mass dispel. The baseline version of it is very much fine since it has a cast time, heavy mana cost and it has a fairly hefty cooldown. However, the fast cast version makes it nigh impossible to kick and reduces its cooldown to boot.
Is it justifiable in current meta, just like according yo you a 3 sec duration spell reflect is? Maybe. But it is not healthy for the game.
Ideally, the reasons it was introduced (CC drâs being too oppressive / RM having too much tools) would be addressed, then it could be and should be removed.
None of these abilities are problematic on their own, its that they give too much bang for their buck.
This has been gradually the case in the game since legion, where abilities with cooldowns have become gradually ever more powerful while those that dont have been reduced in effectiveness. This means that most classes feel meh/crap to play outside cooldowns.
I donât think you and I necessarily disagree that much, we just talk past eachothers points.
Good luck vouching for that. The ability would be nearly useless in todaysâ meta if it worked that way.
It reflects all spells, that includes dispells iirc.
Last time I checked turtle shell doesnât remove dots either. Feign death does when talented. Deterrence also reflected spells when glyphed.
Priest has an immune to interrupts iirc. Also, you can stun the warrior during spell reflect, so that point is pretty moot.
Iâve never heard anybody complain about DKâs one and only magic defense.
So now youâre adding that itâs okay so long the class has had it for a long time?
That would, again, make it useless. The whole point of it is so you can remove everything except for bleeds.
A three-second reflect uptimer isnât âtoo rewardingâ. Not having any magic defensives as warrior is like now, that is âtoo punishingâ.
We need something.
Irrelevant here as mortal strike isnât a defensive.
See above.
Itâs fine. If a paladin can have FOUR different types of full immunities and not affect the game then Warriors can have a 3 second spell reflect uptime. All it does is give Warriors a proper magic defensive that they currently lack.
Spell Reflect has never given âtoo much bang for their buck.â
Iâve never heard a soul complain about how âoverpowered spell reflect isâ. Ever. Not in any of its iterations.
Perhaps but none of the point youâve brought up actually really work as an argument against a 3-second spell reflect.
No it wouldnât be. BoP would still offer immunity against melee attacks, and on top of that classes that canât dispel it canât really get rid of it either. Itâs just no longer a âimmune to x type of damage and you can do w/e you want while its activeâ.
Equally bubble would be made into a pure defensive skill- Not also an offensive one, as it can now be used. Again, too much bang for buck. It currently enables too many things, which is degenerate game design.
Ok so I went to actually see what it currently does- And you are right, it does reflect ALL spells cast on you for 3 seconds, meaning it too has changed over time. Iâd remove the ALL spells again and just reduce it to shadow + fire spells, as it used to be.
Also it is actually dispellable, even now. I just did it in an arena match 10 minutes ago.
Thatâs what I said, yeah.
aye, though in fairness deterrence still didnât allow you to attack + you had to use a major glyph slot to get that effect out of it. Also it had a far longer cooldown than spell reflect did. Not a problem, plenty of drawbacks.
Only through a trinket and holy priests have a pvp talent for it- Which, by the way, is also a degenerate ability. Shouldnât exist either.
How is it any moot? How does warrior being stunnable by other things than single target spell during spell reflect have anything to do with fade?
Iâm not complaining about it either, Iâm fine with the ability as it was/is baseline. I just want all the modifiers and bonuses that have been added to it over the years removed.
Also iâm not sure if it still gives you runic power for absorbing spells, but that should be a thing.
Itâs not an argument of:
âDKâs shouldnât have AMSâ
Itâs an argument of
âDKâs shouldnât have AMS with all these modifiers and bonuses.â
apples and oranges.
âŚYes?
Anti magic shell has been in the game singe Wotlk. Spell reflect since BC, etc.
Currently many of them just give too much bang for their buck.
At this point I am fairly convinced you donât understand english very well- Because I said the exact opposite of what you think I did.
Mind you, Iâm not berating you, you just seem to either have a bad reading comprehension or you somehow think Iâm saying the opposite of what I am really saying.
Spell reflect worked fine from BC to WoD as it was, reflecting 1 spell. And it still is, its just that the game has a lot more degenerate things that shouldnât be in it either.
Also warrior has defensive stance (which should by the way also be baseline), but since it was nerfed to hell, thats not a good thing either. Just needs to be buffed back.
That wasnât the point. You could take a defensive, an offensive, whatever ability. They can all be too rewarding.
Well paladin shouldnât have four types of immunities with no drawbacks.
It has since Legion, and no more since SL.
Iâm not sour nor am I saying it is overpowered. I am saying it is a degenerate game design to create a spell that just flat out makes casting against that target unviable for the next 3 seconds.
Again, Iâm not saying what you say Iâm supposedly saying.
Well, it would, if you actually read what I post rather than what you want to read.
actually I mis-read that. I thought you meant that bubble would only reduce dmg taken by 50% and not be an immune.
Even so, thatâs still at least three times stronger than Spell Reflection would be if it reflects all spells for 3 seconds (which is the exact same thing as the existing warlock reflect)
Thatâs just not going to happen because itâd make an ability entirely useless in any form of rated PvP if you donât face a class that has shadow or fire spells.
How would you even dispell that if the dispell reflects back at you?
Perhaps but Deterrence wasnât on a melee class. Spell reflect used to be best used as a defensive while you got kited. Hunter has no such problems anyway, so the drawback is fair. It wouldnât be a fair drawback for a melee class.
The drawback of fade is that you can still get kicked during it.
The drawback of Spell Reflection would be that you can still get melee stunned.
It has drawbacks, just not the ones you want it to have. That doesnât make it âoverpoweredâ or âunfairâ.
Isnât that just a result of covenant and legendaries and stuff? idk what modifiers it currently has as I havenât played DK in ages.
Spell Reflect is far too underwhelming right now. Itâs useless half the time due to the sheer amount of spells somebody flings at you, itâs nigh-impossible to predict something you wish to reflect and time it in such a way that a multitude of pets or small procs donât take away the reflect.
Thatâs my entire point. If three seconds is too much for you, Iâd be just as happy with a 2-sec duration spell reflect that reflects all spells.
I read just fine and I donât appreciate your sad attempt at patronizing me.
Having Cloak of Shadows remove only magic effects as you said hereâŚ
âŚwould reduce its effectiveness by 75% (Currently removes Diseases, Curses, Magic and Poison debuffs).
This would make Cloak of Shadows largely useless against most classes.
The game has changed so abilities such as Spell Reflect, which worked fine back in wotlk and tbc, need to evolve to fit the new metas. It currently is far too underwhelming.
Defensive Stance is the most pathetic ability in the game and I actively go out of my way to NOT use it. I do not even know where to start, itâs that bad.
They can be but that specific example is not comparable to a defensive and thus irrelevant to this topic imo. Youâre free to disagree.
But they do, and thatâs my point. This is the game we play now and they arenât going to roll ALL of it back just to fit abilities such as Spell Reflection.
âŚWhich is why Spell Reflection should be buffed to fit current meta.
It was fine when it reflected all spells. It was a good ability that gave a lot of utility, while also being our (warriors) only pure magic defensive.
It wasnât a âdegenerate designâ by any means.
Youâre implying that it cannot be countered in PvP by a caster which is just plain wrong.
A warlock can kite for its duration by teleporting away, stun us with Shadowfury or knock us away with Succubus.
A mage can slow us with Blizzard and Cone of Cold, Kite with Blink or Iceblock.
A shadow priest can disperse or fear us.
Spell Reflection doesnât stop anybody from casting in our direction. It just stops direct casts, which is Spell Reflectionâs drawback right there. It is NOT a complete immunity.
No, they really donât. Not in any capacity.
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