that button doesnt feel any different from soul cleave - similar cooldownless spender
Why just not make it an upgrade to soul cleave, or a choice node for soul cleave upgrade another option could be 2nd frailty stack on soul cleave or focused cleave
I am in the progress of learning VDH right now.
The main difference from my understanding is that you’ll need souls (4+) in order to make spirit bomb more effective than soul cleave - Because you don’t always have enough souls for that, you can use soul cleave to spend the fury you have and then start building new fury along with new souls again, in order to use spirit bomb.
So soul cleave is an ability that is more used to spent your unused fury, when you don’t have enough souls to efficiently use spirit bomb.
i understand the difference in use, its just that differences are so small, that i question if it was worth to make it a separate ability instead of an upgrade to base spender.
aktually these are 2 completely different abilities.
U use Soul Bombs on 6+ Targets. It gives u more selfheal and more DPS.
Soul Cleave u should use on max 5 and less targets. It brings more DPS then Bombs.
Moreover Soul Cleave will give 2 stacks of Fraility on your main Target. Bombs are giving only 1. It means u use always Soul Cleave on Bosses cause u ll recieve way lower damage from him. It means if u have a pack where 1 mob has Tank Ability like battleaxes for example in AA u use soul Cleave on Battleaxes to survive Severing Slashes.
Moreover - Soul Cleave gets more DPS increase if u play Hast-Versa.
If u have Haste-Crit - bombs are getting more DPS increase.
There are some dungeons where u dont even need bombs. For example AV is a very good case - u have there always 5-7 targets and there is always 1 target that hit u harder then others. Perfect situation for Soul Cleave spam.
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they dont feel completely different, that is why it should have been choice node for upgrades on cleave - stronger on few targets vs better multi
on 25 and 26 keys coming to the state that bombs are useless and i m Spaming more often soul cleave cause it gives more Frailty stacks and costs 30 fury instead of 50. Now i m asking myself if i really need to pick Bombs in Talent tree…
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Its possible to go with a build that dont uses SC for Frailty. That build can use Bomb for the frailty-buff since its easier to reach in the tree. If you use SC for your stacks you dont need the point in bomb and can use it for something else.
yes and no. U really need to have last tier Talent in Frailty Spec - without Overlaping Frailty u gonna die from every mechanic or even from simple autoattacks.
I m still testing only SC build and feeling myself way more better and consistent then with bombs. I do litterally more damage and can stand still without kiting or trying to los or something else. The only one small problem of SC build is that u cannot consume so many souls as u can do it with bombs and u are not able to keep 100% Demon Spikes Uptime on u. The gap between is about 2 - 3 seconds.
But There are still some dungeons like AA and HOV where u have huge packs and have to backpedal almost the whole dungeon. Here are bombs way more better cause they provide u 100% Demon spikes Uptime and huge selfheal.
I m still experimenting with stats and talents and maybe i ll find finally something that give us big DPS and strong survivability.
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Very interesting. I’ve just been doing the old playstyle of using spirit bomb if I have 4+ souls, and soul cleave more as a filler to dump fury. Seems I should be using more soul cleave
Have to probably ask Naowh about this, the guy was timing +24 keys as 400 ilvl VDH lol.
Well VDH lies a lot on the group and how do they play. Every time they fail - VDH feels it so much. VDH was designed as 1 minute pull Tank. U dont need good gear to do high keys, meta+ spikes, fiery brand+spikes and u can survive everything if u press all correct. Gear gives u just dps and more chances to survive if failed in ur rotation. VDH has almost no chances to recover if something went wrong. If vdh is dead - key is dead - even if u have enough time to finish it - next pull will be not possible.
In other seasons we could imapct a lot on the run. Now - we just have to struggle from low dps, avoidable deaths and not stoped tank casts. Thats why I told that immortal tank classes should not exist at all. It makes group to not pay attention to anything that will kill other tanks and that could be just ignored with prt warrior atm. A lot of 3200 atm have no idea what packs are doing and what must be stoped in order to keep the tank alive if it s not prot warrior. Thats why everyone plays with prots.
this is incorrect, you use spirit bomb on 2+ targets already.
this is categorically nonsense
hm - nope. U use SC on 5 targets. I m using it even on 6-7 cause it gives more Frailty - more survivability. If I know that I m fighting against Boars in Elwyn Forset i can use bombs or SC or whatever else cause i m not thinking about how to survive. Maybe u ll understand when u start to try to tank 25.
already done and its still categorically wrong
Anjunadeep, you’re so confident about the misinformation you are spewing, yet everything you’ve said is completely incorrect.
Impressive really
I also find it funny when people call Xeph’s information false/incorrect, considering that he is 1 of the most active VDH community members/theorycrafters/literally runs Warcraftlogs and thus has access to more information than the majority of the playerbase combined.
whats the point to use spirit bomb on 2-5 target if it costs 20 rage more then soulcleave? Instead of casting 2 times Bombs and get 2 Stacks of Frailty on all targets, it s just mathematically better to press 3 times Soulcleave and get 6 stacks on main target and 3 stacks on others in pack? U become more tankier and dps is much better.
I m not speaking about fighting against mannequin or against NPCs that are absolutly not dangerous for u at all. I m speaking about live run - where every global is important.
- Spirit Bomb is 40 Fury, not 50
- Spirit Bomb does far more damage than Soul Cleave, due to Spirit Bomb dealing Fire damage, and thus not being affected by Armor, which Soul Cleave is
- Pressing Soul Cleave 3 times takes 3 GCDs, pressing Spirit Bomb once takes 1 GCD, and it’s not like you don’t press Soul Cleave if you are playing SpB, you still dump Fury with Soul Cleave after every Spirit Bomb before going back to Fraccing for Fury / Souls
I always find it funny when people drop the “mathematically my statement is correct” without providing any of the math, especially when they are completely wrong about whatever nonsense they are spewing.
alright - 40 - it s still more then 30. It doesnt change a lot. U r explaining only from DPS side. Tank is not about dps first of all at all. Tank should be tanky. And it s just much better to have -24% on main target and -12% on pack instead of only 8% on all targets. DPS increase is the same u make 24% more on main target and 12% more on pack instead of only 8%.
So how exactly does leech and frailty healing work if not by your dmg done?
More dmg - more healing - less time spend tanking - profit?
You do understand how Veng works, i.e Frailty healing & leech? And why DPS = survivability
Like, I find it funny how you say that your build is “mathematically better” without providing any of the numbers, when you’re doing ~30-40% less DPS than me in logged M+ runs, while also doing significantly less HPS, and taking more damage than me.
You also seem to be fixated on that “if you press SpB you don’t SC at all”, which is so massively incorrect it hurts
SpB - SC - SC
5 Frailty on main target, 3 on all other targets
SC - SC - SC
6 Frailty on the main target, 3 on all others
And one of these does a lot more damage, consumes souls more efficiently for Painbringer, and lets you proceed with other relevant things sooner.
Consuming souls a lot slower (and thus proceeding with other relevant parts of your rotation) leads to less FtD value, less efficient Painbringer etc.
I also enjoyed the “I’m talking about live keys” in your comment, am I not doing live keys?