Im not sure if you ever played WW, melees and WW being leather only plays a real part against sub rogues and other wws and arguably BM Hunters.
WW literally has insane peels against any melee with fist parry+root+RoP, while against casters, well you got a kick and I guess legsweep every other minute.
The problem is that WW dies to everything casters and melees alike there is no real difference.
Anyway my point was to rework WW to be more setup based than damage based like Warrior is: basically a mix of rogue and warrior somewhat inbetween. And this alone can already happen by reworking turbo fists into a stun.
And im sorry if you have problems as ELE against WW try to play a mage then and delete your ele. This matchup is as scripted as it gets if you are not a total idiot on ele
You forgot insane sustain damage, extremly short damage cds, beeing unkiteable and teleport. A good offence is a good defence as the saying is.
Sure but then ww will have to lose the overtuned movement kinda like ret.
Oppressive != having problems
The fact is before an ele can even get any type of meaningful damage out given that the ww pops hes cds in my face and i at most have a flameshock out ive lost half my hp or more and wall most likely.
Atleast thats my definition of oppressive.
Im sorry if you are not a total idiot as ww you would see and not be biased about ww beeing oppressive vs most casters incase that fails delete the ww and roll war instead.
But he is right, warriors were like that before, nothing wrong with his intervene change, i agree with him, that would make warriors use their brain more than condemn
I was civil to you, then you started acting like a child and when i did the same to you to prove a point, you lash out even more.
And now you are doing it again, doesnt realy make you look that good.
One thing you get to learn when you get more mature is that no one knows everything not even you just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean either or you are wrong or right. It’s about context and definitions.
Next time, incase you care, meet arguments with arguments and facts prove me wrong dont act like a 12 year old.
What i stated in my example of the definition of what makes ww oppressive vs ele is factual correct but that doesnt mean there are situations where its not.
A forum isnt a place where you can hold a monologue and everyone will just agree yes sir rofl
How are you civil when you try to make your opinions literally based facts? Who said casters have an easy time against ww’s? Where can you prove it? what is in Monk’s toolkit which makes caster life a hell? Exactly. Nothing.
If you take general knowledge about WW you would actually notice that they’re actually really weak equipped against casters.
I really hate caster bias It’s the most boring trash in this world, literally 1200 casters talking like melees are the big boys beating them around when in reality it is the complete opposite. If you watched any professional positioning guide you easily would notice why casters in the end always have the upper hand against any melee.
Also I like your “prove a point” sentence, really you proved a big point lashing out that WW is cancer to play against casters because um ye ww sometimes does big dam. A lot of provement happened i guess.
on top of all that, my post never was ever focused of talking what is good or bad for casters because this change would be completely neutral = weaker against melees, better against casters, overall though more healthy to define a class strength as it used to pre-bfa.
There is a reason you aint getting arguments from me, I am very much able to make arguments to prove you wrong, however knowing forums there is no way to go around trying to prove someone that they’re wrong other than just blatantly telling it right out of the bat and then move on. I’ve actually learned that from the OW forums
Consider also that you have a bias against WW’s which means we will never find a good point because you somehow got farmed on your elemental shaman by a WW.
Also im not here to learn anything from some weirdo forum individuals who hide behind a level 23 deadcow, get a grip now.
With that being said you can make a fresh comeback, go through my main post again tell me what you don’t like without putting in personal experience or information and then we can talk further. You having a bad time on elemental against WW is not the reason I will say “oh wow you are right my lord here take these changes nerf WW plx” that’s not going to happen and I hope you know that now before you write another pile of hopefully non-trash.
I wrote a lengthy reply but i realised its pointless.
You interpret and claim things i never wrote and your master suppression technique is also super cute.
Try it people might surprise you, if you meet me in a friendly tone “because xyz your argument dont hold” i would have fallen flat and agreed.
Instead of starting of with childish comments like this.
Actually they are not all bad, they just play slightly different.
The biggest difference is though that you basically need to be a no lifer and unfortunately nowadays they are all flooded with cash shops and p2w.
Also they lack serious marketing and PR and thus they are not so popular.
I remember Ragnarok Onlines, once it was marketed in German TV took off quite well but of course never had millions of players.
WoW is just more acceptable by a broader spectrum of casual players and always was (even classic was a Korean grinder light)
Ww is too squishy, everytime I face ww I’m always happy because it means there is a target in enemy team that can easily die even to random damage.
But holy sh*t ww is fun to play. At least on low mmr. The damage you can do with cds up is unreal. You can easily solo healers through defensives if left unpeeled which quite frankly happen a lot at low mmr. Also really like the rotation where you can’t press 2 of the same spells in row.
But yeah the second you push to even remotely decent rating I can easily see how awful the experience will become.
This game feels like a snooze fest to play without a pocket healer or playing a disgustingly rigged insane over-kitted class which can look after themselves these days anyway.
It’s not when you played it before all the changes. WW without fists stun is just a warrior wearing leather aka a damage bot. It used to be way more fun.
I have seen 220 ilvl people,not being able to kill 30 k hp players,but also i have seen 2 hand ww monk 204 ilvl killing 38 k hp dk and 40 k hp priest within seconds.
It all comes down to what people like to play and how well they perform doing it.
i think ww is a lot of fun, but from my experience meeting other melees in arena:
warrior is just so god tier there as pure dps
rogue has this opener playstyle warrior still cant have and they always have something to abuse since tbc anyway
feral/ret/enha have insane healings. honestly facing enha/ret in 2s is mindblowingly awful, they hit like trucks, u have to litteraly trinket and def cd/kite at 100% hp cuz harvest+ toll =death if theyre on voice in a split second if they turn all red and wingy, and during down times they have so much offheals that ur healer runs out of steam, while they dont. ww can actually compete on damage during burst window, but not as straight ranged oneshot, and those classes just offer so much more to their team in terms of utility, bop, sac, offheals, grounding, ranged 12 sec kick, purge, hex…
ww as hybrid doesnt have the healing power of the other 3, doesnt have the unique perks of the rogue playstyle. ww is just in direct competition with warrior. so yeah, whoever is the best in that non stealth non hybrid will make the other useless. i dont think ww is that bad, but why play ww when you can just roll arms really.
was about to say they can both have disarms etc to get the comparison further but i remembered rogue is getting it if iirc next patch.
I’ll get back to you when my class an ability where most melee and ranged attacks outside of pre-existing dots and interrupts miss you for 4 seconds & and a talent which further reduces the damage reduced by dispersion and gives healing also focused will is fun and interactive.
WW is like Ret in that it needs its power redistributed more intelligently to be a solid, well rounded spec. As openly biased as I am against them (even more so now due to dribblers rerolling and the spec nonchalantly pumping 5k ST DPS for entire games at a time), it’s not difficult to see where the issues lie.
The only real strength that WW has going for it in a world where they’re tuned even remotely correctly is the fact they have the highest mobility in the game bar none. It makes them miserable to play against as most casters because LoS is the undisputed best defensive “cooldown” in the game, but doesn’t really help them against melee because at some point you have to attempt dealing damage; it’s hardly surprising that Turbo Fists’ parry exists, as cancer as it is.
The damage and some of the random bull needs to go down, and the power shifted into actual defensive options. They’re always going to be the most difficult hybrid to give impactful healing to because energy doesn’t work like mana (despite the fact that mana recharges pretty quickly for hybrids).
also focused will is fun and interactive.