I view Soul Cleave as a wasteful duplicate of an existing superior spell/talent, Spirit Bomb, and I’d like someone to explain to me why this is not the case, if it’s not.
If Spirit Bomb is your top priority after survival, can do more than double the damage and healing — via its debuff on enemies — of Soul Cleave for the same amount of Pain, and can consume all the available Soul Fragments, and should not be used with less than 4 Soul Fragments, keeping in mind that the max is 5, then why would a Vengeance Demon Hunter ever dump 2 Soul Fragments to use Soul Cleave at all, regardless of it being a lower priority, when saving Soul Fragments for Spirit Bomb would be a more efficient use of this resource due to the superior return-on-investment?
Is it to dump Pain? Well, that would’ve been great and would make sense if all that Soul Cleave consumed or cost were Pain, but it unfortunately consumes 2 Soul Fragments, so it overall seems to me at this point like a spell that’s a waste for the most part, rather than an intelligent dump of resources.
And I’m here trying to understand why this is not the case, since Soul Cleave’s included in the priority list of Icy Veins’s guide, for example.
Why should we ever use Soul Cleave? When would it ever make sense if a significantly more efficient and effective higher priority, Spirit Bomb, which is also not on a cooldown, can do a better job with well-spent extra resources (the Soul Fragments)?
Thanks for any convincing explanations of this issue.
Only scenario I see is if someone would use Fel Devastation and Void Reaver. As I didn’t look into this talent combo that much, I’m not sure if there’s any chance of lowering the CD of Fel Devastation, even by means of an ability/azerite trait that chips off seconds on each use. Else than that, it’s still not the case of Blizz’s “choice of playstyle, non-cookie cutter builds” promise, 'cause clearly there’s still a singular best build for nearly everything. Hence this isn’t rly a counter argument, but simply a tally of possibilities from my PoV.
I can see Void Reaver being picked over Last Resort for trash and dungeon scenarios, and the rare raiding scenario of tanking 2+ bosses simultaneously, but I don’t see it being that attractive for one-boss tanking. And if Fel Devasation cooldown was brought, somehow, to maybe 30 seconds, or even less and its numbers somehow adjusted accordingly, then it may be feasible, but as it stands, especially with the vagueness of Gluttony’s chance, Spirit Bomb is the most superior talent in this tier.
What you suggested is at least something, though, hopefully for Blizzard to look into if anyone bumps into this, and at least to improve Fel Devastation or even Gluttony enough to ever justify picking them, rather than nerf Spirit Bomb. Void Reaver also needs to be improved in such a way that it is not overpowered for trash/group tanking, yet also useful enough for single-boss tanking.
And the problem I still have is that even with running Spirit Bomb and Last Resort, Icy Veins’s guide includes Soul Cleave in your priority list, even if as a low priority, and that’s what confuses me. Why would Munkky even include Soul Cleave in the rotation or priority list at all, given how it clashes with and compromises your use of Spirit Bomb! This is not explained in his guide, and I was hoping to get a second opinion on it.
Also by running with azerite trait “hour of reaping” or how its called on english(soz diff language ingame) after consuming 40 souls and having 4-5 available souls, next SC will give shield combined with this souls together. So its Soul barrier + 5 souls inside. Otherwise its just a filler in rotation and pain removal.
Yeah, I had just found out about Hour of Reaping, indeed that’s what it’s called, and came here to mention it. If one is going for that Azerite trait, then Soul Cleave does become much more meaningful in my opinion. It’s just strange that a spell like this seems to be so dependent on talent and Azerite trait choice. It almost seems like a main secondary attack.
use it a a dump, it heals about 3-4% of your HP. Make sure all fire sigils are on cd and fracture is on CD. casting 3 in a row helps heal some. It isn’t to bad