When RP Power Scales Vary

Argent Dawn
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Game purism vs lore. Who cares in the end of the day. There are certain points in lore which match the game/RPG/novels/cinematics, and there’s other times where everything contradicts everything and we have to make up some arbitrary rule of ‘follow the latest release’ in order to write stories ‘right’, let alone faithfully to the original material.

At this stage trying to argue what is right in either scenario is genuinely useless pedantry. WoW is, by and large, a universe were ‘everything is possible’. As the larger community will never agree to establish limitations and/or overall server lore, it’s good to look at RP and the current world as source material to be expanded upon, not faithfully followed—I mean, it’s makers see it this way and clearly that’s the way it’s intended. If we’re talking about following lore/material faithfully, isn’t it a touch hypocritical to say that the creators don’t know what they’re on about?

Secondly, arguing about how RP is meant to be done. In a thread not so long ago, I went in detail explaining why /e RP is genuinely only one of the many, many other varied ways in which roleplay can happen. What we have agreed-upon on AD is hardly the only real way of roleplaying. Anyone with any real experience in RPG tabletops can understand. @Chíeun, while PvP is not yours (nor my) orientation in RP, that does not invalidate it from being classified as such. I won’t go into a lot of detail about why I dislike PvP in RP, because all I have to do is tell you to look at the state of arena/class balance at the moment. Still, the concept of immersion is varied and we should appreciate it for being that.

Ultimately, while I will still continue to defend the ‘lore’, I understand that the concept has become very personal and arbitrary due to Blizzard’s decisions. I think more people should consider that when discussing it.

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Of course they are relevant. The default way how combat works in this game is centered, no, built around the way how classes function. So yeah, if you go the pure duel way, you better play a class/spec that is well represented by those ideals. Plenty of options inside the box, like said.

But if you don’t, that’s fine too- The system just isn’t optimized for you, which is, like you said, a limitation. But again, for the classes working inside the box, it works just fine. A lot better in fact than standing around and rolling for things or emoting about stuff.

Like I said, plusses and minuses.

Well you’re absolutely correct, Blizzard’s inconsistency and multiple sources clashing in some contexts can be extremely infuriating- But equally, if you decide to just go “Ah to hell with it”, there’s a very real danger with letting headcanon run rampant. Warlock licenses and many other arbitrary rules in RP, though very minor compared to Moon Guard US, are still to this date some of the worst RP ever machined by the players, and ultimately even if I hate some approaches Blizzard takes with the story, I still very much rather give the wheel to them than players.

But…You’re not watching a pvp stream. I was literally playing with tens of others in these campaigns. Hinterlands. Darkshore. Krasarang wilds. People were yelling commands, asking for healing, moving to focus down people and using tactics to win the battles. It was great, very immersive skirmishing.

If you don’t like that and it’s not your cup of tea, that’s ok, but a lot of people loved it (still do), and to disqualify it as RP simply because you dislike it seems a bit arbitrary.

Exi’jin was the guys name.

Not steamrolled, as I remember both the final spellcaster tournament and the actual tournament fights taking a good few minutes- It’s true, Exi’jin had the edge in both of these situations and won in the end, but it was nonetheless very entertaining to watch.

PS. I defeated him in the Hallow’s end tournament in the finals on Boush with gladiator stance. Brings me many good memories, and people mention it in RP to this date! Feels great.

Edit: Doubleposted!

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Which is why I continue defending and debating lore. However, it is precisely because

that I feel like we must also keep in mind the fact that Blizzard themselves have actively taken the stance of ‘fill in the gaps yourselves’ and continue to support it. Thus, I feel that when certain ideologies clash such as ‘where do you draw the line between gameplay and lore’, it’s rather impossible to subjectively call an opinion correct.

That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t continue discussing it, but it’s definitely a view I wanted to drop.

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Varian fought for way more than minutes.

If you find an issue with your character not tiring after 5 minutes I find an issue with a fight that would end in 2 minutes taking 1 hour because it’s emote fighting.

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Only two minutes in Anime World after all.

All magic mages use is Arcane, it literally doesn’t matter what spec you’re playing, it’s still all Arcane.

I think an issue is more when characters of the Warrior paradigm take parts from other classes like Mages (hello battlemage) and Rogue (half of stormwind) and create a Frankenstein amalgam that can only be described as “heavied”.

This is when the “power scales” become irrelevant because these types of players have no interest in limiting their own fantasy, and believe all other players should fit around their structure of thinking.

Let me illuminate this with a paraphrased scenario that happened.

“Oh but I have this ultra powerful super warrior-mage who can catapult themselves with an arcane powered heroic leap but they have a weakness to the holy light because fel blood.”

I then proceeded to explain that despite this character would still not have the physical power to lift my character up due to my character being a race that is naturally highly stout and tough, It would be like a house cat trying to pin down a tiger, for example.

“wait what your character has no physical weaknesses?! BUT THATS NOT ALLOWED I GAVE MY SUPER POWERFUL ANIME OC A WEAKNESS.”

Proceed to 30 minutes of inane drivel that ended up with them awkwardly shuffling off when I explained that good characters are three dimensional constructions, not a set of saturday morning cartoon villain traits with tacky soap opera characterisations one can easily peel back with a damp cloth applied to the cardboard.

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I am well aware of this, I simply went and used the specializations as an example. Could have picked any other spec but the point remains the same.

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Thank you for reminding me. What a blast from the past.

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So what? How does the fact that they sacrifice their own lore for gameplay/narrative implies that gameplay is less accurate from a lore pov?

It’s also fairly convenient to 1vs1 as a disc/holy priest if you ask me.

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Ooft, my wee Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit thread got deep. :smiley:

On the subject of roleplay battles, I try to avoid anything ‘serious’. Usually it’d be RP PvP or as part of a group faced with a lone lunatic, so the decision is made for you then. If I was fighting some epic, 1v1 encounter with someone I trusted, I’d prefer emotes.

One problem that is popping up continually in this thread is the idea that the OOC objective of IC combat is to win. If you’re telling a story then defeats are as important as victories, really. No one’s character is unbeatable and even Jaina Proudmoore or (especially) Anduin Wrynn could be caught off guard and punched in the face.

The bigger problem is that many IC fights don’t appear to really be about roleplaying.

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Agree completely, most IC fights are usually one player trying to assert themselves over the other OOC, which is a massive shame. The people I’ve had most fun RP’ing with are those willling to compromise, winning some, then losing others and letting their character’s actions and emotions play off of that.

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If this is the case in your experiences then my condolences. This usually only is the case amongst some of the more unfortunate throngs of Stormwind/Silvermoon rp. In most cases I see IC fights as part of ongoing narratives or making sense in that particular situation.
A naturally bellicose character is obviously going to find a higher chance of being in a fight with others than a more laidback one, regardless of what a player thinks is right or wrong.

If one finds themselves in situations where the OOC agenda setting of other players is controlling the flow of RP then I would strongly suggest finding new avenues where said players are not welcome.

I play Shadow :ok_hand:

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I once witnessed a Blood elf paladin cast Avenging Wrath so his wings popped. He then used these to fly into the air and fire a beam of light at his target, an Orc shaman.

The Orc shaman quickly wove earth and fire together to create a flaming sword which he used to block the blast. The paladin knocked his weapon away and cast a divine shield around it to prevent the Orc picking it up. The Orc leapt into the water nearby (this was in Booty Bay) and summoned a tidal wave (remembering that the rest of our guild was standing nearby) which the Paladin used the fluttering of his wings to blow away.

The next day Vashnu claimed that in her opinion, note her opinion, that she was the best archer on Azeroth. Received angry whisper that I was being ignored by a guild for loling.

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This is why I generally go with the rule of thumb of not being a homicidal maniac who picks fights. I think in the entire time I have played Brigante (about 8 years) in built up city areas he has punched another character once, and even that was with reason. He was then apprehended, charged with affray, and had to pay a fine…

I firmly believe if you pick a fight, -you- take the consequences, whether that means being arrested by guards/grunts, or just -losing-. Losing obviously does not have to mean character death, but frankly if you come and pick a fight with a Farstrider with more than a thousand years experience of war behind him, then I don’t care how Muscly MacMuscleface your Orc or Tauren is, I will outclass you. Likewise if I picked the fight, then my millennia of skill are trumped by your sheer brute strength. Basically don’t be a douche…

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QFT. Sadly this seems to be the mentality of very few. Or rather, most everyone will say this but extremely few will actually do it and RP it out.

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Depends on one’s definition of picking a fight, I’d wager. In most cases, fights can’t/won’t happen with only one participant. If it’s just attacks and gunfire out of nowhere? Then yeah, the initiater gets the law on them.

edit: forgot to finish what I was writing

But just because A initiates doesn’t mean that B should -always- win. That seems flawed at best.

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People arguing over how much more likely it is for their character to win.

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You kind of nailed it with your own example, as to what I mean, yes. If two characters have a hatred of each other, and good reason to fight, and they come to physical loggerheads, then it is down to them to sort out between them how they decide the outcome. If some random just starts attacking with no reason other than to look bada$$ then there is no real investment. It isn’t creating RP, it is disrupting it. They’ll always have a way of dodging consequences, or will always insist that they would win a fight. I’ve seen it on both sides. I have seen Orc RP’ers emote barging into someone else, emote this resulting in them spilling their own drink, and then challenging the other party to a Mak’gora. Seriously. Over a spilt pint, when -they- initiated the scenario and gave the other party no chance to go “Well, I kind of see you’re a bit unsteady on your feet, so I’m careful to avoid barging into you” You know, the way you do if you see a burly drunk headed your way.

But Oh no, it has to be a sacred honour duel, to the death!

A Mak’gora? Over that?

I’ve seen people, often human or worgen characters walk into a tavern, walk up to the nearest group RP’ing in Stormwind and just swinging a punch, or trying to stab them or shoot them (Usually shooting them, Stormwind seems to be like South Central L.A at times). Their rationale? Their character is a Psycho, and like, there are Psycho killers IRL right? So its good RP? Besides, they just watched Suicide Squad back to back several times, and think that they are the unique person who can actually pull off being ‘The Joker’. Just like everyone else who tries it…

In that sort of scenario I am more inclined towards “No, you have come over to disrupt RP with no actual reason, you take the rap, I am not indulging your power fantasy, I’d feel dirty…”

It’s like at LARP, where you have a player who is blatantly cheating in a sword fight, and you go as a Referee “Hmm, now I know that you cannot possibly have that many hits, even if you were maxed out with everything” when being an NPC against them or monstering. and they always get exasperated because they aren’t -winning-, and go “How many hits do you have?” and you just coolly and unannoyed answer “One more than you seem to have”

They soon get the message.

Play the game, don’t ‘Play to Win’.

If there is reason to it, then its cool! If it is random spod wanting to look cool and jack themselves off as to how hardcore their character is, then they can look somewhere else for their gratification.

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Ha yes, that’s exactly the stance I always take too. It’s the initiator of said RP who should be prepared to take the consequences.

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I think this is one of the biggest problems we have as an RP community, and it is neither new nor likely to go away any time soon.

People get invested in their characters and imagine all that badass stuff they are doing, so they don’t want to lose, so they do everything they can to win - in emotefights they just defend (as all the power is in the defender’s hands) and attack as little as possible to avoid seeming weak, in rollfights you emote low rolls as your character not trying very hard (I have seen some people who literally have their character not even try to attack at all just because they rolled low…) and in duels they use items, consumables, FOTM specs and talents and generally try to cheese things as much as possible.

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Imagine the look on my face when Loreology made a lore ruling over Twitter regarding the previous name of Twilight Highlands based on my suggestion (albeit kind of supported by old and obscure wc2 lore, but never confirmed even then).

It’s Northeron btw. Named after the Northeron mountain from wc2. You’re welcome for that dwarf community

edit: the old tweet’s gone after Loreology deleted his old twitter

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